pietro Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Can anyone shed some light on this problem, please, before I resort to making lots of alarming noise and pulling fuses & batteries here & there!! My wife went to set the alarm using one of the remote keypads but noticed that the unit was totally dead - and I mean: totally! No backlight, no LCD display, no indicator lamps, no beeps, ie., it was just like a pad out of the box but fixed to the wall!! I think you get the picture. The system is a professionally-installed Scantronic 9751 with three 9930 remote keypads. It is about five years old and the battery was tested just over a year ago. Until this failure, everything was OK. Having checked all keypads, it's clear that something's gone awry centrally 'cos all are totally 'dead' and therefore I can't communicate with the panel. Power is getting as far as the panel transformer as it's emitting its usual characteristic buzz. I've tried to find troubleshooting information on this fault but can't find reference to it anywhere. That's all I have for you. Since I haven't gone any further than trying to enter codes, can anyone suggest what could be the possible causes? It would be great to open the panel and go straight to the problem with the minumum of delay. I live in a very quite neighbourhood and don't want to be too unpopular (my bell boxes are difficult to reach and if I can silence them without removing the batteries this would be ideal).
leesutton Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 The first thing to try then would be to see if you have power to the keypads, you should get at least 12v lee Lee Sutton E-Mail: leesutton@centurianfire.co.uk Website: www.centurianfire.co.uk Phone: 0845 094 9870 CENTURIAN FIRE & SECURITY (part of centurian group limited)
magpye Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 The system is a professionally-installed Scantronic 9751 with three 9930 remote keypads. It is about five years old and the battery was tested just over a year ago. Until this failure, everything was OK. I would assume from what you say that you have a service contract with the alarm company? They are the ones to sort out this problem if you have. Doing anything yourself would make the contract invalid. If no to the above I expect the problem to be with the battery, you will need a new one, checked a year ago or not. Who checked it, the alarm company or yourself? Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care.
hpotter Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Keypads dead, but what about PIR's etc? Do they still come on if you walk infront of them? The fuses on the 12v side of your system are electronic polyfuses. If there is a short cct across the 12v in the system then 12v is removed and wont return until short cct removed. If the PIRs working (& assume they do cos no mention of bells ringing outside) then would suggest poss wiring fault to the keypads. (done any DIY recently?) Think a job for an eng.
pietro Posted February 22, 2009 Author Posted February 22, 2009 I appreciate your responses. Thanks for the pointers so far: <snip> The first thing to try then would be to see if you have power to the keypads, you should get at least 12v <snip> I'll try this tomorrow. <snip> I would assume from what you say that you have a service contract with the alarm company? <snip> No: the company was sold on and my contract expired. <snip> If no to the above I expect the problem to be with the battery, you will need a new one, checked a year ago or not. Who checked it, the alarm company or yourself? <snip> I checked it with a multimeter and got a 13.2v reading - as you suggest, another battery could be wise anyway, particularly with the age of the existing one. A point worthy of note is that the installer must have been cutting costs, as the battery he fitted was way below the capacity of that specified for the system! <snip> Keypads dead, but what about PIR's etc? Do they still come on if you walk in front of them? <snip> Should have mentioned these. Yes, they do come on, as normal <snip> The fuses on the 12v side of your system are electronic polyfuses. If there is a short cct across the 12v in the system then 12v is removed and wont return until short cct removed. If the PIRs working (& assume they do cos no mention of bells ringing outside) then would suggest poss wiring fault to the keypads. (done any DIY recently?) <snip> mmm... good idea, but no: no DIY in vicinity of wiring as far as I'm able to judge. The fault didn't happen immediately after any work <snip> Think a job for an eng. <snip> Maybe I'll need to resort to that if nothing suggested comes up trumps. Any other thoughts, folks?
Guest RJBsec Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Did the problem coincide with a power cut to the premises, even momentary? Power loss with a low battery can cause problems by freezing all or part of the system - new battery and full power-down, power-up might resolve it.
pietro Posted February 25, 2009 Author Posted February 25, 2009 Ok. A little more detail, if you could help a little more, please. I opened the panel just now and expected all Hell to let loose - not a squeak. Checked Anti-tamper for free movement: OK - clicking away. Removed mains power: still all quiet Removed battery power: external sounders start their song Reinstated power: ext sounders cease. Tried permutations of these operations: consistent result. Checked battery voltage: a little low at 12.8V: could do better but suspect this not problem Checked AC from transformer: 244V in; 13.8V out to board. Checked keypad/extender bus: 0.8 - 1.0V: should be >12V - why? Is this the problem? (Presumably this is why the keypads are dead and their sounders don't sound) Checked Batt & Aux fuses both OK Poked & prodded to find loose connections: all appears OK. On the inside of the cover, there is a film of soot corresponding to the upper right of the panel: is this normal from panel component heating, or has something been running too hot? Apart from this deposit, everything's nice & clean inside & no smell of burning or signs of excessive heat. What do you say, Folks - is it now time for me to dig deep & get an engineer in or should I just order another motherboard anyway 'cos that's what you'd do anyway? I don't mind doing the programming since I've done some of this in the past anyway. Oh, and bearing in mind the cover anti-tamper not setting off the alarm when I opened the box, what's the chance of my IR sensors' anti-tampers setting the alarm off if I open them temporarily to remove the units (to enable my painter & decorator to do his thing in the corner?) Are all tampers linked with the panel's one, or are they separate? Presumably if linked to the panel's A/T then they shouldn't trigger the alarm condition. Am I right? Thank you for your patience. Peter.
justin Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 I appreciate your responses. Thanks for the pointers so far:<snip> The first thing to try then would be to see if you have power to the keypads, you should get at least 12v <snip> I'll try this tomorrow. <snip> I would assume from what you say that you have a service contract with the alarm company? <snip> No: the company was sold on and my contract expired. <snip> If no to the above I expect the problem to be with the battery, you will need a new one, checked a year ago or not. Who checked it, the alarm company or yourself? <snip> I checked it with a multimeter and got a 13.2v reading - as you suggest, another battery could be wise anyway, particularly with the age of the existing one. A point worthy of note is that the installer must have been cutting costs, as the battery he fitted was way below the capacity of that specified for the system! <snip> Keypads dead, but what about PIR's etc? Do they still come on if you walk in front of them? <snip> Should have mentioned these. Yes, they do come on, as normal <snip> The fuses on the 12v side of your system are electronic polyfuses. If there is a short cct across the 12v in the system then 12v is removed and wont return until short cct removed. If the PIRs working (& assume they do cos no mention of bells ringing outside) then would suggest poss wiring fault to the keypads. (done any DIY recently?) <snip> mmm... good idea, but no: no DIY in vicinity of wiring as far as I'm able to judge. The fault didn't happen immediately after any work <snip> Think a job for an eng. <snip> Maybe I'll need to resort to that if nothing suggested comes up trumps. Any other thoughts, folks? Just be careful with all them 'snip's' as you could do more damage!
hpotter Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 As posted above, would suggest keypad wiring if PIR's working. If keypads wired daisy chain you could try and dis the last 2 and hope fault beyond the first (keypad). If star wired, dis them one by one until you get a keypad working then fault on others. Otherwise power down sytem and meter out all cables to keypads. there is a short cct somewhere (unless u very unlucky and got 3 duff keypads in one go!!!)
Guest RJBsec Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 Best first guess is that the panel has died and needs replacing - it may not have affected the keypads but there is no guarantee. If you have suffered a lightning strike or a serious electrical fault then ALL components could have been affected and an insurance claim might be appropriate. I do recommend that you get an installer in to thoroughly investigate the problem, 'fiddling' is unlikely to resolve it.
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