Vince8282 Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 Hi James I agree with all that Roger and Paul have said but have mixed feelings of manufacturers as some are very good and some are pirates. Just as the bloke from Proctor and Gamble said 50% of his advertizing costs were a waste of money but the trouble was he didn't know which 50%. With us quite a lot of what we say is also rubish but you have to go through the rubish to find the gems and this site has many gems including quite a few of it's members both trade and non-trade. best wishes to all Vince Practice in the morning, practice at night. Practice in the evening, until you get it right. Only make sure you are practising in the right way at the right time for it.
lawandorder Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 QFA well I do understand where you are coming from on this but what about ex trade? What happens when a current trade member, who may have devoted his entire working life to the industry retires? Does anybody benefit from his trade membership being pulled? Would his membership be pulled?
A-G Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 well I do understand where you are coming from on this but what about ex trade?What happens when a current trade member, who may have devoted his entire working life to the industry retires? Does anybody benefit from his trade membership being pulled? Would his membership be pulled? There will never be a perfect solution. It's easy to find anomalies ........ but what we've got is near enough . . . PM me for access to the SSAIB members discussion area.
Guest RJBsec Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 Hang on, what manufacturer with problem kit would want to be on the forum trying to 'help' sort out problems?It would be a terrible advert to have problems listed out on a internet forum? It's a lose lose for them in many ways. I think that's why they stay away.... A certain fire alarm manufacturer would get totally slated if they dared show up on here! Hats off to the one's that do show up on here then... Well that was only one aspect - this forum used to be well represented by manufacturers, it could be again but it would need to be much more 'professional' and manufacturers would need to feel protected from abuse - not good discussion but abuse.
Cubit Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 Unfortunately Andrew, many installers have consistently found that when they report problems the response is "we haven't heard that before" - on a site like this it's more difficult to pull that one if a number of installers all confirm the problem.However I think a manufacturer's presence would benefit in many areas not just 'complaints', advice of new products/ideas, reporting wish-lists etc. One or two of us did try Rodger. But without access (no pun intended) to the trade forums, manufacturers don't have a chance. I accept some of the reasons they are kept out but by the same token, they can't answer what they can't see. Anyway, been there, done that as they say. Regarding the 'never heard that one before'. I have to say that is an absolute red rag response. Was so even when i was the Manufacturer. Reps/techs would gain far greater respect if they simply acknowledged the problem. It may not be in their remit to resolve it (the problem) satisfactorily, but it is certainly their duty to damn well try. What i've never understood is manufacturers moaning about poor sales when they have a product with a widely known problem that they refuse to resolve.
Guest old-hand Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 well I do understand where you are coming from on this but what about ex trade?What happens when a current trade member, who may have devoted his entire working life to the industry retires? Does anybody benefit from his trade membership being pulled? Would his membership be pulled? Knowing the "owners" slightly a retired member would probably be given "hounary membership"
lawandorder Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 There will never be a perfect solution. It's easy to find anomalies ........ but what we've got is near enough Well to be honest I'm only playing devils advocate, from a personal standpoint I don't actually now what goes on in the trade area so I don't actually know what i'm missing. I do think though that it's likely that there are retired/semi-retired engineers out there who could offer a lot of help on the trade side particualry in areas such as business development. At the moment we have a situation where potential trade members are vetted by ensuring that they work in the industry (by my understanding at least). It would be a fairly easy matter for most ex engineers to prove they once worked in the industry I would have thought. It does strike me as a little strange that, potentially at least, a convict could come out of prison tomorrow and start trading in the alarm industry perfectly legitimately and immidiately achieve trade staus with the same priveleges as the MD of a major national company.
Cubit Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 Well that was only one aspect - this forum used to be well represented by manufacturers, it could be again but it would need to be much more 'professional' and manufacturers would need to feel protected from abuse - not good discussion but abuse. agreed. surprsing how many 'engineers' ring for advice on the most basic of things. When asked why they don't look it up in the manual the response is often "can't be arsed", "oh, that, threw it in skip", "why should i, got you to do it fo me" etc. . . These same guys are usually the ones moaning their t1ts off about a product and how c##p they think it is. It does strike me as a little strange that, potentially at least, a convict could come out of prison tomorrow and start trading in the alarm industry perfectly legitimately and immidiately achieve trade staus with the same priveleges as the MD of a major national company. You know 'Marky'?? In case you're wondering, he managed it.
kensplace Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 Well to be honest I'm only playing devils advocate, from a personal standpoint I don't actually now what goes on in the trade area so I don't actually know what i'm missing.I do think though that it's likely that there are retired/semi-retired engineers out there who could offer a lot of help on the trade side particualry in areas such as business development. At the moment we have a situation where potential trade members are vetted by ensuring that they work in the industry (by my understanding at least). It would be a fairly easy matter for most ex engineers to prove they once worked in the industry I would have thought. It does strike me as a little strange that, potentially at least, a convict could come out of prison tomorrow and start trading in the alarm industry perfectly legitimately and immidiately achieve trade staus with the same priveleges as the MD of a major national company. Exactly, anyone can start a company, cheaply. Anyone can make a website, cheaply. At present I have had to discuss some issues in the public area that should really have been in private, and whats more annoying is many trade members thought what I was saying was impossible, if a non trade member can point things out that trade members should be aware of, but were not - then that does not say much about the current vetting procedure really. Working for a company does not automatically make a trade member knowledgable, nor honest. It just means they work for a company, which anyone could have set up, for any purpose.
Guest old-hand Posted March 2, 2009 Posted March 2, 2009 Surprising how many 'engineers' ring for advice on the most basic of things. When asked why they don't look it up in the manual the response is often "can't be arsed", Not trying to be argumentative, but how many times you been fobbed off with stupid answers from "tech" when you know there is a fault, have seen this fault before and others have mentioned it. Yet the standard reply is " Wow your the first one to mention this" I have had one manufacturer change their manual wording and programming from this "Discovery" of a error/fault.
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