Guest RJBsec Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 those without iso would agree with you. However those with it would disagree with you.We got BS5750 many years ago with only 2 engineers, and find the benefits to it to be huge. However i also can see that a small company where 1 person knows everything that is happening would not see a benefit for some time James Think that was about what I said lol - but other than being able to be Gold & BSIA what are the benefits to your company?
Cubit Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 ISO means you have a system Whether it is the right system, well, that's another matter.
hpotter Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 ISO means you have a systemWhether it is the right system, well, that's another matter. lol. now now. At least you'll have a 3rd party confirming your system is indeed a system. (& to paraphrase - whether it is the right system, well......)
james.wilson Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 As i said those that have iso see the benefit of it. Thos that dont well dont. When we first started down that road (ie BS5750) i too thought what a waste of everyone time. I then know every reject, every issue on site, every spec, every sale, every customer. In my mind didnt need it. Now i dont know all that in my head anymore and the only way to offer a professional service once you cant hold it in your head is to have a system. Now that system doesnt need to be inspected, but if your going to do it, surly you may as well have your system inspected as well. Just like you use thew argument that 'if' your jobs are good and compliant you may as well be approved as you wont need to change, you can use the same argument for ISO. But as i said while you can keep it in your head then you dont forget anything, or miss ought you dont need a system. If you do need a system cos you cant do that, then IMO you may as well have 3rd party inspection of the system. Thats all BSIA benefits to me in many ways. Remeber they are a trade associsation not an inpectorate so will represent my wishes whatever they may be. Inpectortae cant and shouldnt do that as it is after all an inpectorate not there to represent installers. But the biggest plus for me from the bsia in the infomation i get and input into new regulations. As other members of the NSI forum can see. securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount.
blitzskymaster Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 I think you may be confusing ARC with police response.When I was trading (things may have changed) we had a lot of customers, particualry domestics, using signalling for keyholder only response. They didn't want or need police response so we would often fit digital communicators and charge them monitoring fees without going to the expense of upgrading their systems or using engineer reset etc. Speak to a few ARCs, I think you will find that most of them will be grateful of your business but you will not get police response without accreditation. what about redcare can it be offered on top of this without accreditation?
hpotter Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 As i said those that have iso see the benefit of it. Thos that dont well dont.When we first started down that road (ie BS5750) i too thought what a waste of everyone time. I then know every reject, every issue on site, every spec, every sale, every customer. In my mind didnt need it. Now i dont know all that in my head anymore and the only way to offer a professional service once you cant hold it in your head is to have a system. Now that system doesnt need to be inspected, but if your going to do it, surly you may as well have your system inspected as well. Just like you use thew argument that 'if' your jobs are good and compliant you may as well be approved as you wont need to change, you can use the same argument for ISO. But as i said while you can keep it in your head then you dont forget anything, or miss ought you dont need a system. If you do need a system cos you cant do that, then IMO you may as well have 3rd party inspection of the system. Thats all BSIA benefits to me in many ways. Remeber they are a trade associsation not an inpectorate so will represent my wishes whatever they may be. Inpectortae cant and shouldnt do that as it is after all an inpectorate not there to represent installers. But the biggest plus for me from the bsia in the infomation i get and input into new regulations. As other members of the NSI forum can see. I just think quality & consistancy are sometimes confused, with regard to iso. Nothing wrong with a one man band writing a manual to explain how he does things that another eng may follow to the t. 3rd party will confirm its always, whoever it is does it to the t. t could be terrific or terrible.
lawandorder Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 what about redcare can it be offered on top of this without accreditation? Yes it can but again without police response. Remember, signalling whether by dual-com, redcare, digital communicator or speech dialler is not limited to intruder alarms. Many intensive poultry farms that I know of use red care and dual com to signal power failures, temparature high/low alarms, water pump failures and all sorts of other signals that need to be monitored to prevent livestock loss. There is no requirement for any of the above to be fitted or maintained by accredited companies yet they are still monitored by ARCs. Your best bet would be to either call or email a few ARCs and tell them your plans, I'm sure you will find them helpful. Many of them let you spread the cost of monitoring over the year so you can charge your customers for it monthly (standing order or direct debit once you have built some credibility with the banks)
Guest RJBsec Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 As i said those that have iso see the benefit of it. Thos that dont well dont.When we first started down that road (ie BS5750) i too thought what a waste of everyone time. I then know every reject, every issue on site, every spec, every sale, every customer. In my mind didnt need it. Now i dont know all that in my head anymore and the only way to offer a professional service once you cant hold it in your head is to have a system. Now that system doesnt need to be inspected, but if your going to do it, surly you may as well have your system inspected as well. Just like you use thew argument that 'if' your jobs are good and compliant you may as well be approved as you wont need to change, you can use the same argument for ISO. But as i said while you can keep it in your head then you dont forget anything, or miss ought you dont need a system. If you do need a system cos you cant do that, then IMO you may as well have 3rd party inspection of the system. Thats all BSIA benefits to me in many ways. Remeber they are a trade associsation not an inpectorate so will represent my wishes whatever they may be. Inpectortae cant and shouldnt do that as it is after all an inpectorate not there to represent installers. But the biggest plus for me from the bsia in the infomation i get and input into new regulations. As other members of the NSI forum can see. I take your point and don't infer that there are no benefits from ISO. I do think that anyone can incorporate a simple quality procedure to improve the way the business is run but would question the need for inspection of such a simple quality procedure, I certainly don't see it in the same context as the inspection of installations. For a start-out company I firmly believe that there are many things to get right and established long before thinking about the additional cost in
james.wilson Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 i think the only thing we disagree on (other than the need for iso lol) is the need for inspection of such a policy. You think that installations should be accredited along with the basic management functions, false alarm figures, response times, level 3's etc. Yet dont think that the procedure that manages these does? Surly if a security company does something it either does or doesnt need 3 rd party inspection. Not some bits and pieces and not others. Anyway i do see your point but think we will have to agree to differ securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount.
Guest RJBsec Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Close ... I think that the need for inspection for procedures depends on the size of the business, e.g. I am assuming that the o/p is aspiring to be a sole trader. Startup, getting work and an established name will be far more important that paying someone to tell him he's doing what he says he's doing, especially assuming that his work and procedures are inspected by his chosen Inspectorate, a cost that he will be unable to avoid.
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