ADT

[Paul Giles]

Must admit i do admire the big nationals gear, even in the MA, MSS days with their drums of cable and cars with the interlinking chain logo.

It all looks very professional and the galaxys and scannies all badged as their own models.

I have seen chubb logos on their roller door contacts and have seen a couple of //.National Installer.// logos on some old surface contacts.

So is sonitrol a branch of //.National Installer.// as the Siren is the same?

I know //.National Installer.// and the likes get slated a lot and sometimes it is deserved but i do feel that they do lead the way in a lot of items and can be ahead of their time.

I am talking of the older systems as we have not taken over many new ones, they are the only firm that i know who install two roller contacts per door in case of lifting one corner and the customer paperwork is always very impressive.

//.National Installer.// and Moderns have always used top gear from the early days of the 9100 etc, just by seeing them use Galaxy for nearly all the installs goes to show the direction that they want to be in.

We have a BP garage near us which has had a full //.National Installer.// upgrade with napco detectors and small round devices (possibly breakglass detectors?) mounted along side of them? They must have a strong sales force who are very convincing when it comes to upgrades!

It does annoy me when they quote round here for the installs for a pound but sign up to three years contract but on the other hand it is nice to see the biggest company still standing by its commitment to quality products.

I fully understand the slating they get, we have all got stories to tell, we took a Modern Alarms system once and found a 240V pir wired in 4-core alarm cable!

I think it is enevitable that with a company of that size as with all the nationals you will get bad engineers or possibly under trained ones.

A good example of this was a house we were installing CCTV in and Initial were installing the alarm, good pair of lads and very friendly to the customer but they were out and out commercial installers and did not have a clue about domestics, they were told not to lift floors and simply stapled the cable under the coving and down the walls!

The client went mad as the sales guy had promished the earth, typical national sales guy too, slick back hair, had worked for //.National Installer.// Modern and Chubb etc, now Initial were the best company!

The point is these lads had just finished a huge supermarket and didnt have the first clue when it came to a house and its this lack of training that lets the nationals down as well as sending installers out on their own to install systems with an hours drive there and back.

Bit of a tangent really and i have never worked for a national just thought i would put a post on here as they do interest me with regards to equipment and badging.

Paul

[BUSTER]

The 'little round devices' sound like audio confirmation units

[Paul Giles]

ah thought as much as they red and green leds were constantly 'alerting' bit too sensitive for a glass break i thought!

[bellman]

The 'little round devices' sound like audio confirmation units

Hi Guy's (and Linda),

Yeah, they are indeed audio confirmation mics,

Probably a CSL500, Top Bit of kit.

Regards

Bellman

[norman]

It's also nice to see a little praise for the national's (or at least an open mind )

[Guest Andyp]

As I have always said, the big boys are big for a reason. You dont get that big by doing everything badly.

BTW I also put 2 RS contacts on a roller door over 3 m wide, but that is down to the training I received at Modern, Chubb and //.National Installer.//!

BTW #2, I dont have slicked back hair and I definately dont promise the earth!! You were doing ok on that post until you tarred all national sales staff with the same brush!

Andy

[CompostCORNER]

I can't really comment on the nationals. Not because I hate them or anything but rather because I've never worked for one. I've heard as many scare stories about nationals as I have about independents. How customers who move from nationals to independents and they site their main reasons for moving as lack of action when things aren't quite right. No one who will take responsibility for a problem.

With nationals, who exactly does the buck stop with?

I do know for all the smaller independents I've worked for, If I have inadvertantly contributed to a problem, I soon know about it and would also get my butt kicked by the boss himself rather than the hired manager who tries to be tactful in order not to rock the boat. Is this the same for the nationals?

As for equipment. Of course the national are going to install top gear. When you guarantee the supplier/manufacturer a thousand sales a week of a specific piece of equipment, they can get their wares for prices that make Gardtec 370's look expensive in comparison. It's more about muscle in the equipment sales. My firm Sentry, are members of a system that pool together with dozens of other smaller independents to secure reasonable prices for bulk buying of good quality equipment. the more you buy, the cheaper the goods, thus the better quality equipment you can buy for your money.

As for being big for a reason, who actually owns the nationals? They are all owned by larger parent companies that are financed by the banks or shareholders. Once independents that over the years have been purchased by larger companies with the backing of the banks.

So what is the reason why the so called 'big boys' are big?

This isn't a dig at any person or company incidentally. It's just that I feel no justification for worshipping and staring in awe at the nationals. Their employees are no better or worse than the non-nationals.

Tony

[Guest]

BTW #2, I dont have slicked back hair and I definately dont promise the earth!! You were doing ok on that post until you tarred all national sales staff with the same brush!

He's right tho,all the ones i know exactly the same,except !!,you missed the shades and knobish ties

[Guest]

I can't really comment on the nationals. Not because I hate them or anything but rather because I've never worked for one. I've heard as many scare stories about nationals as I have about independents. How customers who move from nationals to independents and they site their main reasons for moving as lack of action when things aren't quite right. No one who will take responsibility for a problem.

With nationals, who exactly does the buck stop with?

I do know for all the smaller independents I've worked for, If I have inadvertantly contributed to a problem, I soon know about it and would also get my butt kicked by the boss himself rather than the hired manager who tries to be tactful in order not to rock the boat. Is this the same for the nationals?

As for equipment. Of course the national are going to install top gear. When you guarantee the supplier/manufacturer a thousand sales a week of a specific piece of equipment, they can get their wares for prices that make Gardtec 370's look expensive in comparison. It's more about muscle in the equipment sales. My firm Sentry, are members of a system that pool together with dozens of other smaller independents to secure reasonable prices for bulk buying of good quality equipment. the more you buy, the cheaper the goods, thus the better quality equipment you can buy for your money.

As for being big for a reason, who actually owns the nationals? They are all owned by larger parent companies that are financed by the banks or shareholders. Once independents that over the years have been purchased by larger companies with the backing of the banks.

So what is the reason why the so called 'big boys' are big?

This isn't a dig at any person or company incidentally. It's just that I feel no justification for worshipping and staring in awe at the nationals. Their employees are no better or worse than the non-nationals.

Tony

i think 99% of the time they are,and nationals lead the way in new ideas and take the industry forward

[Guest trackerboy]

So is sonitrol a branch of //.National Installer.// as the Siren is the same?

yes sonitrol is //.National Installer.//, it was run seperatly until i think about 3 years ago.