Hour Rate Or Point System?

[Cubit]

Does it matter who allows what, how long etc??

Each company have their own systems and methods. If it works for them, so be it surely?

[james.wilson]

With respect, you must employ monkeys who can only scratch their //.B.W.F.// all day.

Not being funny here at all, almost 4 hours to dress and prog a panel??????????

Not at all. All of our guys are very good. Agreed not the fastest but i dont want fast and poor, i want them well installed. Thats why we allow the time we do.

[lawandorder]

under pressure?

semi 4 pirs and 1 contact. = 11 1/2 hours lol and 4 hrs for the DIGI i wish i had time like that when i was cards in, they expected 8 zones in 8 hours.

Yes but when I worked to this scheme it was the early 80s in rural Lincolnshire.

We were an NSCIA company and rarely did small domestics, they were all bloody great farm houses and PIRs cost a fortune in those days, it was contacts on all doors and maybe 1 or 2 PIRs.

The scheme was really put in place to help surveyors cost the job because otherwise they would go in too cheap to compete against the local cowboys!

[Guest old-hand]

Not at all. All of our guys are very good. Agreed not the fastest but i dont want fast and poor, i want them well installed. Thats why we allow the time we do.

Average inspection marks ?

Grommets used?

Only asking, b4 ya leap....x

PS, customers from previous incarnation`s praise me for programming their alarm/access systems to suit their needs rather than the basic set ups "most" fools think and cannot get their heads around.

That is why you do UDL and set up from office James, and not trust them.

EDIT

Fools as in not understanding systems. Obviously the regulations are adhered to!

[marx]

I dont know is that becose of credit crunch or what but i heard that company in Glasgow changed installer hour rates for points. Mabe thats the future.

[DirectFS]

Hi,

What would u prefer hour rate or point system! few years ago i worked in company where they had point system. So one pir=1 point, bellbox=2, internal camera=2, alarm panel (depends how big) 2-4points, 100m cable=1point. And u know what engineer worked hard to get good points end of the month! But when u have hour rate u will take your time to finish the job lol. I think if u have point system u have different attiude, u will do the job correctly and if u have to then work few hours late to finish the job! But with hour rate what is the change that some one will work late, they will most likely say that they will have to come back tomorrow to finish the job lol. Point system will motivate engineer more then hour rate. I can see point system working well only on smaller sites becose on big sites u might have to pull cables for few weeks. Or mabe the perfect solution would be to use bouth hour rate and point system to keep everybody happy.

Well, I guess we're talking engineer motivation here.

I'm not a fan of anything that encourages corner cutting, and I think most "performance" schemes do that, to be honest. The idea is for the company to motivate the engineers to produce just a little more - profit - essentially. They do that, most often, by cutting corners, it seems, rather than emphasising quality.

The only productivity scheme I've come across that I think works, is one in which installation engineers are targetted on least number of warranty call backs per new system. That is, they install the system, no call backs for six months after (some reasons excluded) they get the bonus. Similarly for service engineers, first time fix rate - above 95% (other than non stock parts) for six months, bonus paid.

Generally, I've found that if you pay engineers a fair wage, and ask for fair work, you get it, and I've also found that engineers don't like to go back in their own time to fix faults of their own making. They tend to get it right after doing that once or twice.

Lots of other things can help morale and motivation though - like not handing over systems on a Friday.....like making sure correct job kit is issued, like ensuring the spec is accurate, and the salesman/surveyor is accountable in some way if "design" is wrong - or the designer if certificated design.

Again, I've only ever found a points sysem useful for calculating things like fire alarm maintenance.

Bill.

[alterEGO]

I cant see how anyone no matter how good can correctly install 8 zones in 8 hours on a domestic

We give 3.4 hours for the panel, and 1.7 hours per device (is sab, pir, etc) average domestic is 2 man days well is for us

It can be done, i installed loads all were spot on, but its not how we do it, as IMO i had towork to hard. We give 2 men 1 day.

All my jobs were spot on, but when i went on to 90% service/fault they got someone else doing them and they couldn't do them in less then 12hrs, and they were rough TBH.

[Cubit]

Paul,

You miss out on a promise tonight or what??

[DirectFS]

post removed

Often, that's true.

Just another industry gripe - the whole salesmen/no technical experience thing.

Salesmen, like engineers, tend to get better the harder their wallets are hit.

I don't think either that asking our industry to carry out risk assessments is especially fair, or clever - most of us are technically biased - not risk biased.

I still believe, as I did when the whole notion of graded systems was first mooted, that the insurance companbies should get off their fat, very well paid, arses and do their own risk assessment, grading their cover properly, and then the level of protection THEY think is needed. The cost arguement is then between the insurer and his customer, and we get a clear shot at installing systems which have been assessed as required by a third party, and so do not have to carry the risk of wrongful advice (at least as far as grading goes).

Two chances of that ever happening - so, in the interim, the only real choice is to push your people to do better - to perform better RAs, to sell accurately, to install well, to maintain well, and to keep your customer base. Sometimes, taking money back out of their pockets reminds them to do a little better. Mostly, having everyone pull in the same direction reminds them to do a lot better.

Just another reason why we're about to see a big swing back to much smaller cmpanies than we've been used to these last many years.

Bill.

[alterEGO]

Paul,

You miss out on a promise tonight or what??