Upgrading To Grade 3

[james.wilson]

it was an art form to do properly and get straight in its heyday, i cut my teeteh with the lead foil which had no adhesive on Chubb's.

tape up 1st, apply varnish then the foil, varnish again at least 2 coats, very fragile stuff it was to. if the windows had condensation when installing, that's when getting it to stick at all was bad enough, and then the varnish would go 'milky'.

on colder days in a narrow display windows etc, you had to dry off the window, wait, run in do some foil, run out, wait all before all you body heat caused more condensation.

my most endearing memory of foil? i was due to go out to as guest of honour (with a masonic mate) to a masonic function, so about 3pm as it was a quiet sort of day, i changed into my party clothes thinking just do some safe small maintenance calls before clocking off, but i get a pager call to re-foil a front door in a news agents in Barnet.

so i thinks 'bugger' just my luck, but easy enough if i'm careful. mark's up, attached foil, attach tape all ok and starts to varnish, when this guy holding 2 large cases barges the door straight into me, i'm holding brand new so full tin of varnish, which gets knocked straight down my really nice strides and shoes, and with no apology he reverses out. to top it all off, he had gone into the wrong shop - he wanted the travel agents next door

i had to clean up the shop floor and door, and now cothes and me are totally stinking of varnish and white spirits. meant i had to cancel the night out and throw about £120 worth of my best clobber in the bin.

regs

Arfur o

Havnt put foil up myself for a few years, but when i did it was self adhesive stuff. Still had the varnish though

[arfur mo]

Havnt put foil up myself for a few years, but when i did it was self adhesive stuff. Still had the varnish though

with the lead stuff you had to pull it over a screwdriver carefully to get it straight before applying, this also made it thinner so mad more fragile. the corners were made more tricky to do without breaking as you had no backing tape to use as a guide.

folding away from the intended direction before folding it back, this left a envelope type edge on the corner, if not varnished to stick it down, the window cleaner easily found it next visit .

when i think back to the false alarms it caused, often due to cracking under the blocks or those corners, damp from condensation shorting it out when the varnish got thin (which would dry out before you ot there), the less conscientious service engineers used to 'temp repair' a break by running a fresh length of foil to bridge the break, and then stab through both layers with a pin several times to make connection through the varnish.

you can just imagine how hard that was to trace in daylight, let alone at 3am, so it's no bad thing it's now lost favour.

why i said in the past, in those days you had to be a really good observant service engineer - calibrated meter, you were lucky to be issued with a half working swing needle one with only 2 cracks in the glass .

regs

Arfur Mo

[james.wilson]

with the lead stuff you had to pull it over a screwdriver carefully to get it straight before applying, this also made it thinner so mad more fragile. the corners were made more tricky to do without breaking as you had no backing tape to use as a guide.

folding away from the intended direction before folding it back, this left a envelope type edge on the corner, if not varnished to stick it down, the window cleaner easily found it next visit .

when i think back to the false alarms it caused, often due to cracking under the blocks or those corners, damp from condensation shorting it out when the varnish got thin (which would dry out before you ot there), the less conscientious service engineers used to 'temp repair' a break by running a fresh length of foil to bridge the break, and then stab through both layers with a pin several times to make connection through the varnish.

you can just imagine how hard that was to trace in daylight, let alone at 3am, so it's no bad thing it's now lost favour.

why i said in the past, in those days you had to be a really good observant service engineer - calibrated meter, you were lucky to be issued with a half working swing needle one with only 2 cracks in the glass .

regs

Arfur Mo

Arf

Im not so sure your right (suprise lol)

I think the old days were maybe better, i like tube and wire/batton, lacing, foil etc. Id even say that they were more reliable long term assuming people didnt stab foil with a pin lol.

Granted we now have better catch performance, and (i know you wont agree here) regualtion has helped with better performing systems regarding catch performace. But Even I wouldnt say the old days should be forgotton. There is still some uses for tube and wire especially.

I have sites that have active beams, lacing and tube and wire. Rock solid systems!

[arfur mo]

Arf

Im not so sure your right (suprise lol)

I think the old days were maybe better, i like tube and wire/batton, lacing, foil etc. Id even say that they were more reliable long term assuming people didnt stab foil with a pin lol.

Granted we now have better catch performance, and (i know you wont agree here) regualtion has helped with better performing systems regarding catch performace. But Even I wouldnt say the old days should be forgotton. There is still some uses for tube and wire especially.

I have sites that have active beams, lacing and tube and wire. Rock solid systems!

don't get me wrong, while i love with great pride what i used to do, but it was ruddy hard work most of the time

so i have no issue about the regs for kit, they have standardized detectors performance, RFi rejection and so on, and so that makes them far far more reliable.

the downside to that, is it is now far easier for ny bodger PJ installer to visually copy pro system designs, and do it badly, often without knowing.

the labour intensive wired detection imo simply has to go on labour cost alone, wired systems take a level of training and skill to install, both for reliability and catch, and an even greater level of skills and experience to fault find and correct successfully.

my early days of servicing systems, i looked after some that were then 40 years old, ebony coated copper wire, open batten frames and kerry clips for door contacts - which were cleaned using emery cloth .

999 machines operated by clockwork motor and valve amplifiers, Burgots Alarms one a Queens award for the 1st silent alarm system, it had only a 999 with no bells. trouble was apoar from cutting the line you could here the mechanism operating through 3 18" walls, it used a real dial and a cam and winch system.

meccano had nothing on them, on activation a pegged arm pulled the chrome plated dial round (which ticked loudly), and then it dropped the whole platter complete with dial down with a loud crash, (which then ticked out x 9 times). this happened while allowing the dial to return, motor then lifted the dial platter up again, peg engaged and sequence repeated a total of 3 times to get '999'.

did i mention this was all housed in a very large tin box?

so if you broke in, or accidentally tripped it on a maintenance, you heard the machine start up, so smartly gave it hearty whack on the side to send the tone arm over the record, and stop the machine before the 3rd '9'.

so i do believe in high standards, i was trained originally on Burgots which with Rely-A-Bel became Chubbs and by one engineer who would literally beat me for what were minor 'mistakes'.

i.e. the screws holding the hardboard to a wired door (yes we used brass screws and cup washers back then) - all the screw slots HAD to be perfectly horizontal and exactly evenly spaced.

it is where many make a mistake thinking i never worked for quality companies, i was even in line to be an engineer training officer, but with a young family i withdrew as i could not afford the severe drop in wages due to lost overtime.

so yes i can and do keep very very high even fastidious standards, and i get very disappointed even angry when faced with lack luster lazy efforts, especially by firms getting work i'nm barred from, by just paying lip service to being in an organisation meant to stamp it all out.

which is what my very 1st post ever was trying to discuss, the efectivness of the NSI etc - not as it was taken in any way to knock those who are as dedicated like of me.

but we have been here before

regs

Arfur Mo

[james.wilson]

i.e. the screws holding the hardboard to a wired door (yes we used brass screws and cup washers back then) - all the screw slots HAD to be perfectly horizontal and exactly evenly spaced.

I agree here also, IMHO its the last 10% that makes a good install great. I also expect similar (maybe not the screws all lining up but id pref it) but i would expect them to be evenly spaced.

I know the 2 of us have opposing views re approved installers etc so i wont go there either lol

I think generally in all trades pride in the job is hard to find.