Parking Congestion Charges And Fines

[arfur mo]

some time ago when our dear Ken was in charge, i wrote and asked about setting up a DD, so if i went into the zone i get charged accordingly - simple you would think. but i was told they could not do that at this time, and were not even considering it.

so i replied in that case can i pay an amount up front and you draw from it as the charges required, i would beresponsible to keep it in credit, the mayors office could also earn some interest.

now get this i was phoned by a lady who was head of some mayoral department and told "we, can't do that as we are not here to make a profit" and without a single falter in the voice, boy that was some acting performance.

anyway, a discussion on a PTW forum i decided to float an idea and also air it here

parking fines (hated by most even when you deseved it))brought the beginning of the end of our 'innocent until proved guilty' corner post in British law, now the law has been eroded so you are guilty until proven innocent - or can't be ignored anymore.

so as things stand now -:

and as i have done, legally bought a ticket, displayed it properly and i'm within my paid for time when i returned, but the numpty or corrupt parking control attendant has still issued me a fine. i had no screen PCN, so i'm unaware and did not know anything until the now extra costs fine rolled onto my door mat.

i appealed, sent the original screen ticket explained no PCN, and i was still turned down. so now i take a photo of the screen with my payment ticket on, and again in close up to show the time & date every time i park, and every time i leave to show no PCN tickets attached, not had to test it worked yer but what else can you do?

bad enough and obviously unjust in anyone's language, like most i am basically an honest person, if i have parked illegally and get popped, well it was my choice and i stump up (and of course have a good cussto cleans the blood), but having been done for no legal reason, i really get as angry as the next person.

ok, if you fight then the charges are ramped up to incredible levels in a very short period of time, obviously to deter you from taking the risk of loosing. late payment increases are not differed until your appeal is heard and/or sorted either way, but carry on increasing until paid or stuck.

you will also loose time to attend appeals, even court action which you may or may not win. so you could be out hundreds even thousands of pounds, have the embarrassment of bailiffs trying to recover your car off your drive at the end of it all if your stubborn.

so as it stands current law is leaving you liable to much higher payments than you need pay for the PCN/CC ofence, and the insulting indignity of being considered as a liar by default thrown in, until you can prove you are not lying on their terms.

with the congestion charges, if i pay then for some reason cancel and do not go into the zone there is no refund

so not that i love the idea to bits, and it should not be necessary in a just society, but lets deal with real -:

to protect ourselves from such unjust charges, if we could i would sign up for direct debit, then the following advantages are available -:

1) if i am rightly fined for illegal parking, it is paid promptly and at the cheapest possible 'discount' rate.

2) i can't get done for not paying the congestion charge, or not paying within time.

3) i won't accidentally pay the charge when it is suspended, perhaps for a road works/accident issues (rare i know).

4) i automatically pay for the time i've parked for, not for the longer time i had estimated i needed to park for.

5) no need to worry about topping up, just not overstay the maximum time.

6) no need to make phone call, they could even text me when a charge/fine is made.

7) if i am charged/fined incorrectly, i can appeal without incurring extra late payment costs

8) no ticket to show to thieves i'm not likely to be back for several hours

9) if fined in error i can fight it without the added risk of suffering late payment top ups.

we all believe we have control over our personal finances so just the idea of paying fines this way will seem repugnant to many at 1st glance, but considering we already pay by DD on phones, mortgage, council charges etc as ask what can be the problem or critasm for paying fines this way, especially as it is likely to save you a lot of money, as long as it s not at some stage forced on the individual that is?

regs

Arfur Mo

[Cubit]

Somewhere in all that you mentioned having received a parking ticket, fines andexcessive charges.

Ifso,

Was this issued by a Council - a proper, bona fide, council attendant, for parking in a Council Carpark, on street parking etc

or is it a ticket issued by a Parking company, eg EuroPark,

There is a major difference.

[arfur mo]

Somewhere in all that you mentioned having received a parking ticket, fines andexcessive charges.

Ifso,

Was this issued by a Council - a proper, bona fide, council attendant, for parking in a Council Carpark, on street parking etc

or is it a ticket issued by a Parking company, eg EuroPark,

There is a major difference.

Hi Cubit,

this was Greenwich Council, i'd parked in the underground car park next to the Cutty Sark.

i don' get PCN's as a rule, i'm just very very careful. i tend to not g into the CC zone either these days. why it was so frustrating when i caught this one. only appealed but did not fight it further as i would i loose far more money in wasted time going to a hearing.

but it occurs private estates and clampers aside, having a dd set up for council areas i tend to be in more regular like Greenwich, Lambeth and Westminster as example, could prevent many such problems escalating or even from happening in the 1st place.

another issue i and i've seen where it may help, this reported on watch dog and th 1 show, you car reg is cloned, that driver then hits the CC zone, don't pay parking and so on. 1st you know about it is when a few weeks later fines drop on your mat which by that time are additional penalties.

one woman was fighting off near £4k worth and bailiffs banging on the door until Watchdog got involved, so i would want some limit or device to stop excessive charges being taken.

she did live outside London and never went in, so normally of no value to her. but at the start of that problem if she could have received a text about being charged for CC, then she would at least have a better chance to challenged immediately, and to alert the Police quicker at the same time, perpas dring to her local Police station to prove she was in her home town at the time.

all this is simply my suggestion, but with the above in mind, at the moment i can only see if it's ever available as being a good thing.

incedentally, i'm sure Boris said he was going to set this up for DD to pay the CC automatically in his campaign - heard no more since he got in though.

regs

Arfur Mo

[Cubit]

I collect the private tickets for fun. Free parking. great.

[Guest Oxo]

I think how it works now for fees is fine. The attendandts know when you put money in and how long for with the new PDA`s they carry.(on pay and display now mainly in westminster and West 1.

Never send in money with an appeal , it gets things moving along quicker. When appealing take all the details of the day including other car registrations in ajoining bays and the times left on the meter/time of expericy on the ticket.

An almost sure fire way to win an appeal is to say you were loading/unloading and produce an invoice timed and dated for the same times as the appeal, then canx the invoice after the won appeal.

Greenwich is notorious for the problems aforementioned. I used to service two alarms on the high street and it was always murder to get a spot, generally you joined a queue of people tailing back into the already congested roadway.

Congestion charge is easy set up an account with them and you can pay by internet or mobile phone up to 10pm that day. Easy as pie, no excuse. You can pay upfront as suggested but not as a DD account IIRC.

As for cloning if your sure this is the case then you are not liable. Again withhold payments untill such time it is either proven or unproven akways making sure the other side is kept aware of the fact.

[arfur mo]

I think how it works now for fees is fine. The attendandts know when you put money in and how long for with the new PDA`s they carry.(on pay and display now mainly in westminster and West 1.

Never send in money with an appeal , it gets things moving along quicker. When appealing take all the details of the day including other car registrations in ajoining bays and the times left on the meter/time of expericy on the ticket.

An almost sure fire way to win an appeal is to say you were loading/unloading and produce an invoice timed and dated for the same times as the appeal, then canx the invoice after the won appeal.

Greenwich is notorious for the problems aforementioned. I used to service two alarms on the high street and it was always murder to get a spot, generally you joined a queue of people tailing back into the already congested roadway.

Congestion charge is easy set up an account with them and you can pay by internet or mobile phone up to 10pm that day. Easy as pie, no excuse. You can pay upfront as suggested but not as a DD account IIRC.

As for cloning if your sure this is the case then you are not liable. Again withhold payments until such time it is either proven or unproven akways making sure the other side is kept aware of the fact.

Hi Oxo,

with parking and CC, its not the norm but the exception which costs you dear, and i think Greenwich and Westminster compete to be the most pugnacious towards motorists. i'm rarely found inside the CC zone these days, but 2 years back i was working on a job for one of the forums members, i waited while he paid by phone, we returned and car was about to be lifted, expired no warning text received.

i to set up for pay by phone via text for CC, and Van + Motorbike parking. which i like better than meter and cash. works fine on most the times i've use it. for CC i will usually pull over somewhere just before or after going in and ping the text to ruduce the chance of me forgetting.

my trouble is more with the West London Extension, dead easy to stray and not realise. my son was forever forgetting to pay resulting in fines. his own stupidity true, but i even had my van clamped on my own drive for one of his fines.

he lived with us for a while so his van was registered here, and he drives what was my old white Toyota van, mine is a later year and in Blue.

its fine taking details when there is a ticket on you screen to warn you, did not have one and continued blissfully on my way until the additional late payment fine arrived about 10 days later, by which time way too late .

i have also been ticketed on a Red Line off Wardour Street, all i had done was drive down this road in very slow traffic and i do remember passing a warden, but i had not parked - appeal refused need i say no more?

had parking simply been taken by DD (you have got to pay it anyway so would it matter what method?) the ticket would not have been issued, and if it was i'd have got a text, allowing me to challenge over the £40 instead of the £100 it ended costing me.

that poor woman had no chance, she was simply ignored and fines constantly upped + bailiff fee's, so you really are vulnerable to this crime.

so just think it a better or at least safer way

regs

Arfur Mo

[Guest RJBsec]

Get one of these ... shows where you were (Google Maps), time & date, speed and video footage.

Roadhawk

[breff]

Cor Blimey, I forgot how much you could talk Arfur, good to see you back though, with the CC they won't do DD or block prepay because then they have to catch you to get paid, the way it is at the moment we pay because we are afraid to get caught and have to pay more later.

[Guest RJBsec]

Get one of these ... shows where you were (Google Maps), time & date, speed and video footage.

Roadhawk

Now that we can upload:

[arfur mo]

Now that we can upload:

possible Arf senior moment, all i see on the link is car insurance stuff what sort f price is it, wicked wide angle on the lens for i assume on a small van

i have a small camera that records sound and clips to sd, over rights when full. cost £40 off ebay. no built in time date, so placed so it looks at my phone display when driving, which updates the time from the network.

mainly to record the clown boy racers who chop you up or pull out suddenly in front of you, if it were to cause an accident then i have some evidence on my side of being say passed on the inside at speed, or lights were green when i went through and so on.

it looks good kit but i bet costly, so most jp won't want to spend out on that to protect against the of chance, need to keep downloading and storing as the problem of no PCN fines, can take a few weeks to come to your notice by which time damage done.

tbh going into the old Arfur mode for a moment, why should we need to even thing of spending so much on protecting ourselves from these officious cretins?

like i said earlier on. the mere idea those AH's raking money ad lib from mt account with me runs against the natural grain - and i'm the one who thought it up lol!,

but then, when you look harder at it ad think it through, even through my well known skeptical eyes, can you really fault it?

expanding on the idea just a tad, if the vehicle is company owned, then the parking could be billed direct, this would reduce the paper work and faff involved in reimbursement of employee's for instance, also a sneaky way of checking they were where they said they was and for how long .

regs

Arfu Mo