Guest Oxo Posted October 2, 2010 Posted October 2, 2010 Ross has a long rkp cable run, by adding that run in with the keypads still local, How can you add this with local RKP unless as I said short it out and use a return leg? Assuming a 4 core Belden it will only carry voltage or data. Not both, and BOTH need to be tested and you know will react differently to induction either mains or RF. Although Belden should "throw" this off. But in the real world it could be running along the 3phase for 50 of the 70 mtrs! I think "crazy" was meant in an humorous way. But from looking as an outsider I can see your point. Also.....if there is a short at one end, it will be at the other unless the cable has been cut/crushed. Basic testing would prove that.
arfur mo Posted October 3, 2010 Posted October 3, 2010 How can you add this with local RKP unless as I said short it out and use a return leg? you simply connect the cable to the 'out' terminals, if problems have been missed with a meter (perhaps intermittent short or spikes) then this gives a chance to show up. like i said i don't know this kit 1st hand, but same would be done on Tunstal, Scantronic, Gardtec, (i assume data in data out on remotes wiyh Gals Tex etc) Assuming a 4 core Belden it will only carry voltage or data. Not both, Gardtec and Scanny 9500 did, is Gals different here? (just curious). and BOTH need to be tested and you know will react differently to induction either mains or RF. Although Belden should "throw" this off. But in the real world it could be running along the 3phase for 50 of the 70 mtrs! some sound reasoning imo, the keypads power up but in a 'fault display' state, on panels i have worked on, this is usually indecates incorrect data, i.e crossed bus or keypad not declared in config. with Gasls is induction the most likely suspect herel? i'd hazard physical cable faults at fault, but thinking aloud what about cable legnth limits on the Gals? if beldon is used it tends to reduces transmittion legnths in conparrison to UTP cable, is 70 eters of beldon to far?, I think "crazy" was meant in an humorous way. But from looking as an outsider I can see your point. (thanks for the support here). Also.....if there is a short at one end, it will be at the other unless the cable has been cut/crushed. Basic testing would prove that. totally agreed, and about proper testing no arguements, if you were advising me or i you, we could assume that either would do this as a given, but i think unwise if we/i assume that proper testing to have been done by an unknown engineer (why i related the basic method earlier). Arfur If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
arfur mo Posted October 3, 2010 Posted October 3, 2010 Restating the obvious? No one had yet, including myself said to test the screen and Earth strip for voltages as well as the cores. Something even experienced people forget as it is not used in the circuits. Also obvious if your used to Belden it has Red/Black/Green/White as 4 core. So where does the yellow come into play? You missed 2nd fix obviously from the OP`s opening post. TBH it seems you posted for the sake of it. If I see a genuine answer there is no reason to add anything apart from a QFA, unless your trying to up your posts. I still cannot fathom out your method of testing the installed cable as you describe it. The obvious ( god that word again) thing to do is fly lead everything ignoring the installed cable. Then if all is well test the installed. As before I had immense problems on a G3-520 2 sab`s 4 power rios 2 rios 12 ( did i say 12, not going to back read the thread now)7 internal sounders and loads of circuits. It turned out after testing as described the main PCB was faulty, as luck would have it the next 3 came from the same batch, so it got worse. Then I discovered a inherent problem with the panel in general. To which several members on here were aghast at. The problem has been "engineered" out of the new panels and the manuals re-written. Anyway I digress. Your statement is confusing on the testing. All I and others were doing was to try and clarify to make sure the OP had the right information. No insult was intended. part of my post reprinted -:, reading above, i would do as Oxo says flylead rkps locally, if they work add the rio, then the rkp cable run/s with the keypads still by the panel. if any of that that causes a problem that would point to cable issues sorry, just i can't see where my advice was confussing, end of the day Ross will have to connect this suspect run to the rkp data, i'm saying is connect the cable while rkps are at control end of cable, just to see if it cause's the problem. i was taught i'd be a wise engineer if i always metered out all runs for shorts between cores, and cores and a good earth and finally each core ressistance (by shorting out the far end and measureing from black to all colours which should be the same, finally red to yellow which again should be the same), and thats before you connected anything to the panel, their may not be a yellow core, tbh a very minor detail, i'm assuming Ross is bright enough to substitute for another colour. the mechanics of the test is well enough explained, i.e. to use one nominated reference core to test all other cores against. term used was 'core' which incudes the 'drain' core, the drain core is in direct contact with the screen, so the test and advise totally stands up imho, if the cable is 'clean' then by all means mesure for induction etc. this cable may well be a 2 - 50 pair beldon (but is it beldon?), it don't really matter for the sake of this test, it won't change the method used, just increases the ammount of tests needed to be done. personally, i would test all cores against the drain core, something i'd do but i did not mention, there are some tasks we do without thinking, due to mind numbing repeat in practice. i thought it was clear enough, if not then hope this advice is now a lot clearer to all. Arfur If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
rossibufc Posted October 5, 2010 Author Posted October 5, 2010 Problem sorted. Turned out to be 1 of the keypads - would work when it was connected on its own but when the 2 keypads where connected wouldnt work. Replaced said keypad and everything works fine.
arfur mo Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Bit of a beggar to find because with big name kit, your/we are entitled to expect it to work out of the box . Still, different idea's and approaches aired, can't be to bad a thing IMHO . Arfur If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!
tiepfout Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 just try it woth an sensor if the CCT entrance or working
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