Homelink 75

[kfpel]

Hi All

I installed one of these systems in a domestic premises around a year and a half ago – devices originally configured as follows.

1) Front Door (Door Contact), Final Exit, Part Set Attribute.

2) Hall (PIR), Final Exit, Part Set Attribute.

3) Lounge (PIR), Normal Alarm, Part Set Attribute.

4) Dining Room (PIR), Normal Alarm, Part Set Attribute.

5) Landing (PIR), Normal Alarm.

When the customer goes out and fully sets the system, it all works fine and have had no reported problems.

When it was installed, I had an issue where if the customer tried to part set the system it would say set fail, and display the problem as being the Landing PIR. I didn’t understand this, as the landing PIR does not have the part set attribute therefore any signals from it should be ignored when the system is part set?

Once the system is part set, we never had an issue with the Landing PIR. You could walk about in front of it as much as you like and it never went off. However, approximately 1 in 5 tries the Landing PIR managed to interrupt the part set process. The male voice says “the system is part setting” and the screen states that the system is part setting, ruling out my original assumption that the customer had pressed full set by mistake.

After a dozen visits, someone in tech support suggested changing the Landing PIR device type to Entry Route. I had no idea how this would work, but it seemed to do the trick, so I put it down to experience and left it be.

Last week, the problem came back. No settings have been changed. No PIRS have been moved or changed. But while I was on site, I started a part set ten times and on three occasions the Landing PIR caused a set fail.

Any suggestions on what I can do? Or is it a glitchy panel that needs changing?

Thanks is advance.

Regards

Kieron Flynn

Senior Engineer

Pel Services Ltd

[Guest Oxo]

You tried just omitting the zone?

Can the PIR see you when setting?

Have you changed the battery in the PIR?

Have you swapped out the PIR for another?

[kfpel]

You tried just omitting the zone?

Can the PIR see you when setting?

Have you changed the battery in the PIR?

Have you swapped out the PIR for another?

PIR signal strength is 9/9, so I assume it's okay. Another engineer I think has changed the battery at some time in the last year. The PIR can see you when it is setting - but that surely shouldn't matter because I'm not arming that PIR. Basically. The customer enters their code, chooses part set, walks past the hall PIR (which is why this is a final exit, as the customer will hit that when they come back down in the morning) then goes upstairs for the evening, past the landing PIR.

Am reluctant to tell the customer to abandon the part set and instead do a full set with one circuit omitted - its a clunky way round things, and the part set was in the spec that we were supposed to have installed to in the first place!

Another idea was to get her to start the part set, go halfway up the stairs, out of view of the hall PIR, wait for it to set, the carry on upstairs. Again, I think this would work in terms of stopping the set fails, but I think its would be ridiculous to have to ask the customer to do that.

I think my last resort will be to face the hall PIR away from the keypad, and make the part set an instant set. However, it will take time to do this, and neither the customer or my company want to foot the bill

[Guest Oxo]

Another idea was to get her to start the part set, go halfway up the stairs, out of view of the hall PIR, wait for it to set, the carry on upstairs. Again, I think this would work in terms of stopping the set fails, but I think its would be ridiculous to have to ask the customer to do that.

That would tie in with my saying can she be seen by it on setting. Could be a glitch in the programming, not used this panel so not sure. But if you think it would work re-site the PIR. Or mask it off and try. Should have been tried already IMHO. Also a swap with known working and reprogged as landing non partitioned.

As for moving the hall PIR your not addressing the problem just hiding it. Bad practise.

A dozen visits? And you think the battery was changed, no logs or job sheets? How do you know what has been done previously or do you do everything again each visit?

[kfpel]

That would tie in with my saying can she be seen by it on setting. Could be a glitch in the programming, not used this panel so not sure. But if you think it would work re-site the PIR. Or mask it off and try. Should have been tried already IMHO. Also a swap with known working and reprogged as landing non partitioned.

As for moving the hall PIR your not addressing the problem just hiding it. Bad practise.

A dozen visits? And you think the battery was changed, no logs or job sheets? How do you know what has been done previously or do you do everything again each visit?

Ouch, harsh words!

There were a lot of visits when I did the original install - it was my first (and last!) of these panels, and nothing tech support suggested worked. I work on Menvier systems almost daily, but as a company we don't really do much domestic work, and the ones we do are almost all hard-wired Scantronic/Menvier with a bit of Guardall, Honeywell and Aritech thrown in. I think we only have two or three of these Homelink 75s, and to my knowledge, this is the only one where we are using the part set function. Anyway, my visit last night was out of hours, so both my office and menvier/scantronics offices were shut, so I couldn't find out what has happened before or get any advice. Unfortunately, the log book and old service reports had been thrown away by the customer, apart from this years service which was in July!

I don't see a problem with the Landing PIR. It is exactly where it needs to be, on the first floor landing, and I would fully expect the customer to walk past it on her way to bed after setting the ground floor of the house (all the devices with the part set attribute). It shouldn't matter that it can be seen when setting, as it is not in the part set area. It seems to me that the panel knows that it has to ignore activations from the sensor when the it is part set, but for some reason is not ignoring that sensor during the 30 second set time (it needs to be that long for the customer to get upstairs - she's quite old and frail)

One of the times I spoke to tech support, the guy on the phone told me that you can't activate ANY device while the system is trying to set or part set. Surely this doesn't make sense. If you scale it up to a large site with for example a Menvier TS2500, its like making everyone in wards A,B and C stand still while the caretaker tries to set ward D.

[Guest Oxo]

Not harsh just trying to assist from what you say.

You say tech said you cannot activate any device when setting, yet the user is walking past the hall PIR and the logs show this is fine.

Could be the zone not in partition is the problem ( possible glitch as I said), take Tech`s advise and move as I suggested the landing PIR to another position on the landing.

Before you do so, mask it off and test with a part set.

From what you say this is one thing you have not done, yet Tech mention it.

PS you cannot compare a giant like a TS2500 with this panel.

[kfpel]

Not harsh just trying to assist from what you say.

You say tech said you cannot activate any device when setting, yet the user is walking past the hall PIR and the logs show this is fine.

Could be the zone not in partition is the problem ( possible glitch as I said), take Tech`s advise and move as I suggested the landing PIR to another position on the landing.

Before you do so, mask it off and test with a part set.

From what you say this is one thing you have not done, yet Tech mention it.

PS you cannot compare a giant like a TS2500 with this panel.

Its just annoying that I can't get it to do what a hard wired panel would do. If I had an M800 in there, I would put all downstairs devices in ward A, then the landing PIR in ward B. If customer goes out for the day, she does a full set. When she goes to bed, she sets ward A. No problem.

The stair landing is at the top of the stairs, a space of probably 2m x 3m. Wherever I put the PIR, the customer has to walk across the landing to get to any of the rooms, so I cannot move it.

All devices are in the same partition (partition 1). This is as advised by tech support. I could try putting the different detectors into different partitions, but I don't think that's how the customer specified it, as it means going through the rigmarole of setting both partitions when leaving the house. At the moment she is using a four button telecommand - one button for part set, one button for full set, one button for unset

Four posts down - one more and I can apply for trade membership, woop woop!

[james.wilson]

So to recap.

Sometimes on part setting the landing causes an exit fault. Does it do this immediatly on arming or has the system started to set and the client is activating on the way to bed?

Also what is the latest firmware version and what is in this panel?

[Guest Monty]

Hi we have used the home 75 a few times as like your self we often use M800/M600 with an MR Node but we haven't had any issues with the home 75 systems that we have in and maintain and I am sure we have similar setups to the one you require and work OK I know its a pain but perhaps a factory default and reprogg would sort ( i norm tell tech where to go when they suggest this but on the odd occasion it works we have miss progg some thing ??)

[Monty]

forgot to sighn in before i sent reply