Bsia Recommend Insurance Approval Before Any

[arfur mo]

I think in the example eloquently put, misses out Alarms are mainly a grudge purchase, fofced on by insurance co requirements. so In real life if the Insurrance say they are happy with digi or just GPRS, mr customer don't usually care that much,

those that do, would normally command higher integrity signalling in the RA.

Arfur

[arfur mo]

If i Can I ask about ip signalling, often browsing loading a site can be slow, then returns a time out. That site might be busy, but also fhe network traffic demand could be ex exceptional at that time.

Given Internet is expanding world wide at an all time high, china industry striding forward with it millions if people, mobile phone use demanding more ip addresses, do you feel it's likely to ever cause service denial by 'swamping' with ip the technology?

Recent ip course the lecturer mentioned there is already shortage of ip numbers,

Arfur

[james.wilson]

ip v4 is running out in some countries and has already run out in others. ip v6 address's this. So not currently a problem in the uk but will be. ip v6 should be in place by then.

it would be easier to dos attack ip recievers so a potential there but im sure that is already taken into account. But yes if the link was swamped it would delay the signal but as the data is so small it wouldnt delay it by much. Id say that IP comms are much much faster than dialup digi's due to there not being the dialup element.

[jimcarter]

Totally agree about the grudge purchase point and it has been this way for a long long time hasn't it? Our industry has been driven down by cost because that's the only bargaining chip or feature that is left. What I like to arm people with is the ability to up-sell systems and indeed make them better. Faster more efficient communications provides you with this. At least then you have given the client all the options, and more importantly you may win a sale that is worth more to you. At the moment the Insurance Industry is educating itself on all forms of communication media and the days of simply saying "it's got to be a RedCARE" are numbered. It wont be a fast change, but it is happening.

James...yes...GPRS availability is the same as dial-up. But....local circuit availability on radio is affected by many factors, especially in the security application. GSM (and GPRS is an IP service running over the GSM network)Global System for Mobile Communications. Mobile is the operative word. In normal circumstances we walk/drive around with our mobile devices but in our security application we nail it to the wall...permanantley. A lot of people forget this. Therefore it is subject to network coverage (or lack of), what a building is made of, where the kit is installed within the building (and how many devices do you find installed in a basement! Loads), what the weathers like, what time of year it is or whether the provider takes down their service (normally in the dead of night).

So ideally it should be used as an alternate route to a fixed line service and that can be the primary or back-up.

Arthur..don't panic...the network will not grind to a halt. We need to communicate, it is the life blood of business and as consumers we crave for more and more services (although I'd agree we'd feel they are being forced upon us sometimes!). There is too much at stake to allow communications to fail, so networks just get bigger, more reliable and faster. Just look at mobile technology and where it was in say 1990 to today as an example.

There are a number of reasons why (in your example) your website is slow to load, it may be contention on the network but more than likely that particulat website is very popular and is receiving a number of hits from lots of users. Some webpages have a large data content so they may take longer to load up. So a slow connectivity is not indicative of a busy network. A good test...go to www.google.co.uk, if it loads in good time, its's not your network.

[arfur mo]

thanks Jim,

i really appreciate the illuminating responses,

i don't do ARC these days because i've remained outside the inspectorates. and i;m not out to rekindle the arguements as been done to death .

i do remian deeply interested in all aspects both old and new of the trades i cover, i tend to search under the stones looking for improvements and the weaknesses. often thoughts or concerns occure where, i can't get informed information, i may be i'm installing a phone system or cameras, and simply get asked a question about alarms, because i have my company name on my shirts.

James and i are at loggerheads ' over GSM v Diallers, my contention is as long as it is in stronge signal area (and the kit has a signal measuring feature for this and line detction), with GSM client can't leave or knock the phone off the hook.

i doubt the phone line is taken through the digi in every case, but atached like an extension, if so, it can't interrupt such an event. the phone network who provide the ptsn line can be changed by the client, and the compression stops the digi doing its job, it continues is see the line so remains silent, only found out on a fail to communicate (where a 24 hour test signal has worth) or PMV by an alert service engineer. Not all phone cables enter the site in a secure manor, and can be attacked before entry is attempted with very simple implements.

against that, it is much harder to disable GSM line without some specialised jamming kit. and if an intruder with the right skills and kit is likely to attack that site, the the risk assesment would decree a higher grade of signal pathe - well i'd hope so .

there is the GSM maste disconnection issue, but then PSTN has road works, engineer down a pit or working in the exchange can remove servioe, nothing is perfect at this level of security, and nothing stopping anyone having both facilities in a cheap dual com sense, so more a case of weighing up the odds with no outright winner imho .

regarding IP traffic, i did not mean on the site's network or the ARC servers, but the intermediate internet servers being overloaded. i'm on cable, very few in my area are, so with acheap 8meg/250m line i get very little lag, due to local node's lesser increased usage at high use times17:00 - 20:00 (gives me an edge in on-line game playing to ).

Arfur

[jimcarter]

No problem Arfur (spelt your name right this time), hope my ramblings are useful. In the context you mention then GPRS would be fine on it's own and indeed would in some respects have an advantage over the landline. Agree with your arguements, especially knocking the phone off the hook and the dialer installed "behind" other kit on the circuit etc.

If you have good reception (both signal and registration) and you have a reporting time of 24 hours then the you probably wont notice small drops in comms. As I say, the actual network availability is at least 99.8% and is comparable with all networks.

Let's not forget, that the radio signal only goes as far as the base station, once there, it's onto the BT backbone along with all the other comms, PSTN/ATM, IP etc. GPRS is what you call a machine to machine service, and its generally an "air to ground" delivery (most definatley in our case, and it's an IP based service). Unless I send you a picture from my phone then it's air/ground/air. Once it hits the backbone, the traffic is on the public internet or in security,delivered into the ARC via broadband.

Sorry I did not make myself clear with regards to the network. I was actually talking about the intermediate network equipment and not the last mile. The providers are pouring money into the core network all the time as everyone demands fast reliable service. We can't live without it.

All the best..JC

[arfur mo]

did i read a post that said "if you had to make a very important phone call, just one & was urgent would you use landline or mobile"?

i'll put it another way, would i prefer to converse in a public toilet to be presented with just a cable - or sat in my comfier cleaner (ok just) van?

Arfur

[arfur mo]

thanks Jim,

no probs with the name, i even get people swear at me - full of typo's shows complete disrespect imho .

thinking of the 'unlucky' situation, activation happens and GSM line temporary down for maintenence what ever, there will be no comms at that time, but i'm sure the agility will transmit as soon as comms restored.

say client is away for a week, intrussion happens but line dead,. when networ restores the signal isthen sent sent, while well after the event someone knows and can go an re-secure/advise police.

that won't happen with a voice dialler or a digi if the phone is off the hook, so i think Mr Wilson now owe'e Mr Mannering (me) another large bottle of single malt

thats what i call result!

Arfur

[jimcarter]

Not sure of what the agility is..but yes...any self respecting alarm signalling device will always be attempting to reconnect to the network and delivery any alarms that it has not been able to transmit.

Do I get any commission then?

[james.wilson]

hang on.

If a timeout occurs then wont the original signal be lost?

ie it will keep trying to send a comm fail, but surly the original signal will be lost?