Ip Alarm Signalling

[james.wilson]

Following on from recent discussions and after finding out how poor IMO G2 and G3 signalling is under certain conditions I thought id start this discussion.

Jef has pointed out on my blog that 'THE IP AGE IS UPON US'

I always doubted that but feel its currently a viable option.

My concerned about IP signalling are

who provides the 'block'

How do we test its an acceptable termination point

What happens when the client blames us for his email, web access or whatever issues that were enever there before we fitted OUR alarm.

I use IP everyday and rate it. I use it reliably for CCTV, but numbers wise I would have to use it a lot more IF it became our primary signalling device.

But the advantages are to me.

G4 signalling at a competive to G2 and G3 signalling costs

Monitoring software and automatic reporting.

UDL over a secure method ie more secure than forwarding ports and using the panel.... (product specific)

I have been having various conversations and i think i can see a viable option for me. Granted it may be overkill to those that already trust IP, but we dont tend to work in managed IP networks. ie its an wannadoo router that a mate of a mate looks after for us.... we currently only use IP on managed networks, or where we provide the IP infrastructure. THis would have to change.

I like the idea of using IP as primary path, but i also want/need a wireless option. Id also like a pstn option for when the IP is down, power failures, router issues etc. And as you know i dont trust GPRS fully.

So my ideal Communicator would be a single board. That connected to the panel via 232 or 485 (ie no dial capture). Supported SIA 4, (yes 4), allowed UDL over any available path. In its basic form i want it to be a single path IP only unit. for £x and £x per annum. This could still be G4

I then want to be able to plug on boards (ideally i want these boards to be low cost for the equipment) to have GPRS 'bolted on' PSTN bolted on, CCTV, etc etc. That way IF i want to i can use it as a 3 way communicator. Especially in the early days until IP has proved itself as a mass market signalling system. If it looses its IP it would still be a dualpath unit with GPRS and PSTN.

No lost signals. A network and protocol designed for this century etc etc

I think one of things that currently hampers IP, is the total beleif those with IP products have in it, and the total disbelief those without viable IP products have. We have hybrid everything else. why not a hybrid comm alowing any option, pstn and IP if i realy want.

[arfur mo]

Prosys and agility have an ip optional expansion board.

I have no need if it, I worry that network traffic may hinder speed at certain times.

Take simple texting, I sent a message at 00:02 new years day, it arrived at 06:23 and awoke my very annoyed brother-in-law who had been on nights and just got of to sleep .

Arfur

[james.wilson]

i think sms and ip are 2 different beasts mate. Well i say i think.....

i think with all the issues that have been on here about gprs, it shows an issue. May not be an issue with gprs as a tech and might be an implimentation issue, but looks bad....very bad.

However my app that i wrote that checks if things are up, similar to nagios but with closer integration into my stuff, shows very quickly there is an issue. THis is all pure ip.

Im convinced on the theory, but im not 100% convinced on most peoples broadband. ie arf i wouldnt trust your broadband to signal anything

[MrHappy]

IP is strange beast, unless its a clued up multi who knowes they what & how they want it to work you've little chance of finding a robust infrastructure and manged IT in place.

Most likley it will be Mr Singh & a patch lead trying to save line rental

[PeterJames]

The thing Ive never liked about IP is the extra service provider its another thing that could go wrong, also if the ip is provided on the same phone line and the phone line is cut both paths are missing

[james.wilson]

The thing Ive never liked about IP is the extra service provider its another thing that could go wrong, also if the ip is provided on the same phone line and the phone line is cut both paths are missing

pete

how reliant are you on your ip link at work?

and from experience of my own ip link at home and running pretty serious things over it, with a major issue if it ever went down.... as you know, i didnt have an issue. I had more issues with tel line availability.

I do think that ip and bb is more reliable than gprs especially with recent posts about its poor reliability.

[jb-eye]

The thing Ive never liked about IP is the extra service provider its another thing that could go wrong, also if the ip is provided on the same phone line and the phone line is cut both paths are missing

You may have to exspand on "extra service provider"

Try the comparison of RedCare Clasic and IP. Both are G4 and both report com fail only IP is bit quicker. Now lets make this dual path say GPRS or GSM. now we have out Red/GSM v our IP/GPRS

So whats the difference?

The two things that jump in to my head are:

Cost

Extended format

We could of course add to th IP argument:

movability

UDL

Speed

And to the Red/GSM argument

ARC friendly

Block terminal (oh i forgot that about the same cost as a patch point)

Dosent fail when the mains gets pulled or IT working on system (hey! that normally when we are open so what)

Now do IP v Digi = No brainer

Pete

I think the problem with most is dinosaurs and cheapskates.

If your fixed with kit that’s not IP friendly then IP is an expensive option so you’re stuck.

IP using traditional format type signalling is humouring the herd. My own panel manufacturer has just backdated our kit to DP due to popular request from the herds. We are in a NON TECHNOLOGY industry. Let’s be real here Alarm FITTERS will never willingly embrace new ideas whereas Alarm ENGINEERS will.

[arfur mo]

With IP systems, us there the risk of the client changes provider, new router gets installed so no port forwarding now exists?

Me not knowing enough about it so might be a silly question, but steps also need to be taken against patch panel jockeys inadvertantly disconnection your kit.

Arfur

[PeterJames]

James my original service provider was ****, Im with Virgin now but at home I have virgin and over the years I have had loads of problems I will admit that it has improved

Jeff its not that I wont embrace change I do I love technology but I also look at what may happen if it goes wrong.

Another thing to consider with ip signaling is ups, if the router isnt working the primary path cant signal, so down power the building then cut the phone line leaves you with a keyholder getting called to a potential hazardous situation.

Its not that I think there is anything wrong with the idea, but I do think there is as much to go wrong and more, dont forget service providers are providing bb not security and much as they will try to provide a service you cant hold them responsible if things go wrong as much as those that are supposed to be providing security and only security

[Cubit]

This what you're hinting at Jef?