Dualcom Box Installed In Non-Protected Room

[Guest Oxo]

we will have to disagree. To the reg its a protected area. While in real terms it isnt.

agreed my comment on low risk is assumed,

Please point out the part where it says a signaling device in a room/closet/hallway that can be attacked without any signal being sent is to standard?

[james.wilson]

it doesnt say that does it.

what im saying is that technically all of the upstairs room sin this house (assuming they have no external doors) are classed as inside the protected area.

you disagree and thats fine.

[Guest Oxo]

If the room/area is not protected then how can it be within a protected area?

Not sure how your reading this but, no detection, no protection.

What do external doors have to do with it?

Not protected is NOT protected.

I`m trying to give a reasonable argument here and struggling to.

If its not protected its not worth a toss.

And NOT PROTECTED.

Repeating myself here I know, but its clear as day.

[james.wilson]

ok

[Guest Oxo]

Hmmm, the one who says if you have nothing to say DONT post.

Lets take this to another level.

Would you consider a communication device to be adequatley protected with no detection in the vicinity of the said device. With a possible attack on the said device not to be detected by the primary system?

[james.wilson]

ox, im not saying i agree with it. I personally would have detection.

However it complies to the letter of the reg as it is a protected area. If i remeber when i get into work ill quote the relevant bit.

to clarify imo its better to have detection with the panel. however it is not mandatory.

if you remeber we had a similar discussion about panels under stairs with small windows in the same area. Still technically classed as 'protected'

[Guest Oxo]

Vaugely remember what you mention.

I believe the concensus was the window should be either physically or electronically protected.

However I would like to see the item that says an area not with detection is a protected area.

[PeterJames]

If the room/area is not protected then how can it be within a protected area?

Not sure how your reading this but, no detection, no protection.

What do external doors have to do with it?

Not protected is NOT protected.

I`m trying to give a reasonable argument here and struggling to.

If its not protected its not worth a toss.

And NOT PROTECTED.

Repeating myself here I know, but its clear as day.

With respect Paul understand the logic of where your coming from in fact I would agree because someone could break in on the first floor the and not be detected before reaching the dc I would say its outside the protected area, however, the standard doesnt it is quite clear on what is considered the protected area, I and Im sure that James would agree that it is quite bizarre that the standard doesnt see it this way, but James is correct technically with regards EN50131 and BS4737 for that matter. So it is bad practice but there are no rules broken, unless the cables between the dc and cpu are not mechanically protected

[Guest Oxo]

Thank you for the agreement here.

But i would still like to see the relevant reg for this.

I have never fitted a comms unit wether a digi red/gsm paknet emizon or any other device without it being protected.

As you mention any cables being mechanically protected.

BT side not our responsibility, our side always routed or concealed or protected.

I still maintain if not covered by detection, not protected.

[arfur mo]

I would ask here, those who have put the panel and Tx in the loft, or like this site in the master bedrom, you have a detector on the landing which is good.

That detector in part set is not armed, so will not act for a confirmed signal if panel is attacked, so you should have a detector in the loft NOT a contact on the flap. now I don't see that very often where the loft is not part if the living area.

The simplest way to protect this panel is a contact on the cupboard door, unlikely to break into a cupboard rip panel down due to space (unlike a loft) - as has been done since time in memorial and will protect it, even while part set.

If the transmitter is in the loft then a detector placed there can protect a lot cheaper and more neatly than conduit or armoured cables.

'protected area'

I interpret that as a building having the control panel within, accessible from the entry rout not separated by a solid barrier, I.e. All the house but not the garage or conservatory, which are separated by locked external quality (as in robust secure) doors.

Trap protection, in basic format relies on the intruder moving from room to room eventually tripping a 'trap' detector. Any normal home, most value is in master bedroom and lounge while some wil have items in other rooms or safes, this is how an intruder will usually search. So minimal detection would be a front door contact, pir lounge and landing.

If a kitchen as example is not directly protected, it is still regarded as 'within the protected area'. Seems daft I agree, but it is because if the intruder breaks in via the kitchen he will eveventually go into the lounge or upstairs tripping system. if he is bright enough he will take what's in the kitchen and leave, not triggering the alarm. so it forms 'protection' of the main items through reducing their loss - well that's the theory .

Arfur