Texecom & Dt7550Uk2

[arfur mo]

I'm in no hole, thee is no sound argument against having dedicated fused feeds which is dimply good practice - end of, as said this is a pro level panel installed by an amateur, and i'll say once again while most experienced engineers can fault find a dead short, intermittent shorts are far harder to trace, especially if most of the system is on a single fuse.

Even a 2amp fuse will cause a slight voltage drop, more pull on that fuse the higher the voltage drop, so good practice is to split the loads for that reason if nothing else.

If you think that's rubbish I wish you well, it's simply what I do and concider a true professional approach, and i'll put my fault/false alarm record up against anyone and Ivermectin the 24 years if trading.

Arfur

[sjsturner]

I'm in no hole, thee is no sound argument against having dedicated fused feeds which is god practice - end of, as said this is a pro level panel installed by an amateur, and i'll say once again while most experienced engineers can fault gind a dead short, intermittent shorts are far harder to trace, especially if most if the system is on a single fuse.

Even a 2amp fuse will cause a slight voltage drop, more pull on that fuse the higher the voltage drop, so good practice is to split the loads for that reason if nothing else.

If you think that's rubbish I wish you well, it's simply what I do and concider a true professional approach.

Arfur

the hole thing was a joke.it looked like you were struggling to make your point.

are you saying in mrs miggins house you would wire an additional psu just incase bob gets fruity with his hammer?

im not saying its wrong its great but you obviously work for yourself cus most firms wouldent pay the extra for such a rare occorance

[9651]

On 25/01/2011 at 22:11, arfur mo said:

I'm in no hole, thee is no sound argument against having dedicated fused feeds which is god practice - end of, as said this is a pro level panel installed by an amateur, and i'll say once again while most experienced engineers can fault gind a dead short, intermittent shorts are far harder to trace, especially if most if the system is on a single fuse.

Even a 2amp fuse will cause a slight voltage drop, more pull on that fuse the higher the voltage drop, so good practice is to split the loads for that reason if nothing else.

If you think that's rubbish I wish you well, it's simply what I do and concider a true professional approach.

Arfur

I agree tbh. We had Gal 2-20 a few years ago that was fitted (not by me) that I got sent to. Was fine for a week, then blew the aux fuse, bell going off, RKP dead. Get there, fuse blown, take current readings, all ok, no dead shorts after splitting out. New fuse, month later pops again. Anyway finally traced it to a pressure fault behind the RKP, think the keypress's by the customer must have increased/decreased resistance, then it popped (slow burn when looking at the fuse )  On a Menvier for instance the fuse to the rkp would have popped, thus showing me where the fault was.... With the gal i had to go through the lot. Separate fuses do help

[sixwheeledbeast]

I'm in no hole, thee is no sound argument against having dedicated fused feeds which is dimply good practice - end of, as said this is a pro level panel installed by an amateur, and i'll say once again while most experienced engineers can fault find a dead short, intermittent shorts are far harder to trace, especially if most of the system is on a single fuse.

Even a 2amp fuse will cause a slight voltage drop, more pull on that fuse the higher the voltage drop, so good practice is to split the loads for that reason if nothing else.

If you think that's rubbish I wish you well, it's simply what I do and concider a true professional approach, and i'll put my fault/false alarm record up against anyone and Ivermectin the 24 years if trading.

More fuses more voltage drop then!!

I don't see how separate fuses have any relation to fault/false alarm records. Fuses are what happen after a fault, they don't stop bob getting fruity with his hammer!

[arfur mo]

On 25/01/2011 at 22:18, Oxo said:

As before, live in your little land.

Let the rest of us use the equipment as designed.

If you cannot make a comment about deriding anything, try not to.

And carry on slinging 12 core everywhere, I thought it was the Chinese causing the copper shortage.

Possibly I sm causing the cost of cable ti go up 

I don't do to many systems where more than one expander is needed. In houses, I tend to fit one keypad as usual and ehere i used ti fit a pab ti landing now its a rkp and offer radio fobs ti the really nervous.

Before expanders, it was common ti have a j/b in the loft or airing cupboard, multicore back to panel, detectors from j/b. So wiring is much the same. Unless stuck for room you have to run one cable and double up the connections, if you have ti rum one cable no real hardship to pull in several more and usually far quicker overall.

I'm no deriding anybody, I do as I do for inho very good reason. nobody in here is employed by me, so can do as they please.

I've built my reputation on reliability and attention to detail, I concider any avoidable fault missed as s massive insult to my personal craftsmanship, I give myself the hardest time if I slip up, trust me on that.

Might be cable faults are rare, but they happen. If not why bither with a fuse? We can all go remove them and fit a nail - no worries.

Now that's crazy, a fuse is there to protect the cables just in case, so 'just in cae' break it up Si you spend lesstime on tha odd occurrence.

A short don't always take out a 1 amp fuse, if it's far enough away from the PSU. But that short will cause a rkp tamper if on the same power as the detectors, now try spot that one in under 5 minutes.

Would take you less time using my methods simple as, labour is more expensive than copper - still .

Arfur

[james.wilson]

its a valid point but the obvious thing to do would be to run a spare power set to the keypad just for aux supplies. Persoanally i wouldnt just as i dont with rios etc.

But re the power issue for the op you need to add up your total current use to see if your overloading.

Arf

On small systems id agree and would put the exanders by the panel, however on normal size jobs this isnt practical and is cost innefficient. Modern panels are designed for a scattered network of epanders etc. and installing this may results in a lower cost to the client

[arfur mo]

On 25/01/2011 at 23:01, sixwheeledbeast said:

More fuses more voltage drop then!!

I don't see how separate fuses have any relation to fault/false alarm records. Fuses are what happen after a fault, they don't stop bob getting fruity with his hammer!

 but no. In your method you pull far more current over a single fuse which has to be a higher value. My method the fuse's can be lower rated( so act faster).

Before you get to the job, if the fault report is 'keypads dead - can't stop internals'. short of a panel/device failure it's a fuse gone, walk in the door spot detectirs are working you have done half the diagnostics before opening your tool bag.

Report can't set or false alarm

Only some detectors working narrows down where tinkook 1st - or not look. and again, not even got the meter out yet 

I'm no stranger ti cable tracing, i've even made 'crashers' to aud in this work, andd been in this trade 43 years,

Arfur

[james.wilson]

i think his point was lower value fuses have a bigger volt drop accross them

[sixwheeledbeast]

i think his point was lower value fuses have a bigger volt drop accross them

Spot on, plus if additional split up fuses are fitted the first bigger fuse still must have the same current running through.

A control panels current should never get near it's fuse rating; if running a 7Ah battery then each PSU in the system should draw no more than 560mA standby, to get the 12 Hours + Activition required.

You obviously haven't fitted many 100+ zone systems in your 43 years, otherwise you would see the method of running more cable and having power supplies all back at the panel is not practical. Equipment has changed and is designed to feed power in this way.

Time and experience, does not grow linearly. They are not the same thing and should never be assumed they go hand in hand.

I don't think this helps the thread dragging random anecdotes about JB's in lofts and fitting nails in fuse holders.

Either way is acceptable, your method is in the minority.

[arfur mo]

i think his point was lower value fuses have a bigger volt drop accross them

correct, voltage drop is a product of current drawn at the stated voltage, feeding all detectors and keypad off a single supply you draw more current, so spilt the keypads and expanders off = less volt drop across 2 (or more) fuses.

i spilt long detector feeds runs to a max of 2 detectors, the run's being usually harder to visually track end to end due to being hidden under floors etc.

my feeling is if a fault is known as possible the it is avoidable, as a pro engineer (not a just a fitter), i avoid those faukts as a a matter of personal pride. my reward for 'over engineering' as some may see it, is i like it a lot when i'm told the broker offered a premium discount for a registered firm to take over the PMV, but they turned it down knowing my systems established rep for reliability.

if they do have contractors in and have to call me, my diagnistics aided by such design are quick, so the repairs are cheaper, why a i can't accept the cost can be higher to the client over the longer game.

quality is quality, i beleive i add class as well.

Arfur

Arfur