Scantronic 9651 Frozen?

[hpotter]

i'd check the clock wire between the panel & keypad, maybe trapped between keypad & backplate?

clock wire missing would prevent the display from updating, pad accepting codes etc as you describe.

if not sure, run a short cable to panel & hand hold the keypad etc.

[poissonchat24]

Thanks for this.

There are 3 no. keypads on the system, 2 no. are 43EN (i.e. Keyprox) and 1 no. is 41EN (no keyprox). If one of the keypads had a trapped or disconnected core, would this cause a problem on all keypads?

I'll ask them to perform a cold start tonight and see what happens over the next few days. I still have a sneaky feeling that supply spikes are upsetting the main PCB, but I want to find a catholic list of possible causes, clock wire may have some mileage.

Would a dodgy clock wire cause an alarm when unset? I suppose all these questions don't really have simple answers, I guess anything is possible.

[hpotter]

There are 3 no. keypads on the system, 2 no. are 43EN (i.e. Keyprox) and 1 no. is 41EN (no keyprox). If one of the keypads had a trapped or disconnected core, would this cause a problem on all keypads?

if it was the last one to be used, then yes. (others are still locked out by system as no refresh)

I'll ask them to perform a cold start tonight and see what happens over the next few days. I still have a sneaky feeling that supply spikes are upsetting the main PCB, but I want to find a catholic list of possible causes, clock wire may have some mileage.

check induced ac & mains earthing. as for spikes, got 9x5x systems running in steel fabricators (welding!) without issue (in uk, with goooood earth)

Would a dodgy clock wire cause an alarm when unset?

tamper.

even a power down/power up without defauling should get other keypads going, just make sure they use one of the other keypads first, thus locking out the dodgy one.

[poissonchat24]

Sounds like you have a plan!

The keypads are star wired (just referring to your words, 'last one') so in this sense I take it to mean the last one used, not the last one in a bus radial.

Induced AC did concern me, so shielded cables to a (hopefully) clean earth are used.

As for mains earthing, in restrospect I am suspicious about this given the look of the earthing rod etc.

Anyway, clock wires first and then we'll see

Thanks again hpotter, this gives me more confidence.

[hpotter]

The keypads are star wired (just referring to your words, 'last one') so in this sense I take it to mean the last one used, not the last one in a bus radial.

yes

As for mains earthing, in restrospect I am suspicious about this given the look of the earthing rod etc.

had some really iffy faults that turned out to be earthing probs, esp in remote farms etc

Anyway, clock wires first and then we'll see

i would. let us know how you get on.

[poissonchat24]

Hi All,

Apologies for not adding to this thread in some times, it isn't closed out, just dormant! As you appreciate the panel is in France so I am attempting to undertake the repairs / checks 'by remote control'.

I have asked for the panel to be hard reset, which has been done (effectively dropping power and re-booting). The panel displays now just show the software version number, all LEDs are illuminated, and no key input is possible. (Display shows Ver 4.00 Feb 15 2007).

I will do as suggested above and have clock wires inspected to see if this, or cable drain wire/shield is touching the PCB.

I'll post back shortly. What confuses me is why did the system work for several days and then suddenly develop this problem? Perhaps touching a keypad has maybe made contact, or a wire may have settled...

As I said, I'll have remedial works undertaken and post back.

Jon [poissonchat24]

[IAS]

Greetings all,

I have recently installed a Scantronic 9651 system at my French inlaws house in, you guessed it, France. It was perhaps foolish of me to have installed my first ever system over a 1000 miles away, but the job is done... and the consequences must now be lived with. Any help will be much appreciated.

The system appeared to be working perfectly for 48 hours when set then unset in the usual manner, however I was called (when I got back to the UK) to say that the alarm was disarmed and then an hour later when unset it went into alarm by itself. The user could de-activate the alarm using a prox-tag however after this the system is 'frozen', it will accept neither a proxtag nor a code and simply displays 'B Disarmed'. If a proxtag is placed locally it simply beeps, but the system display does not change.

I have wired the system using screened 8 core cables, all earthed at the panel owing to the relatively close proximity of other mains cables to my field device cabling, I had a sneaking suspicion that induction could be a problem. Some cables are however in six core, the bell box being one (less mains cabling present) and some door contacts.

The French consumer unit is a very recent install (circa 6 months) and is 230v @ 50Hz.

I strongly suspect that I may have been the victim of a surge in the supply which has caused this erratic behaviour. As far as I am told Scantronic make a decent panel.

Key questions are:-

1) How can the panel be unfrozen? Would a 'cold start' be necessary, i.e. drop the mains supply, remove battery, replace battery, kick start, replace lid, reactivate supply?

2) What would cause the alarm to go off when unset?

3) How can I avoid this before all confidence is lost in the system (and me!).

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks,

Jonathan

yep - usually just need to power down, power back up to restart, is the keypad adress set correctly?

[poissonchat24]

Hiya,

Yes all keypads addressed correctly, tested and working at the time.

We have powered up and down several times now, the system only shows the version date and will go no further. Whilst pressing keypad keys gives a beep, it does not register with the system, i.e. no codes work, no screen refresh etc.

First of all, I'm going to have them check clock wires and put small boots around the ends of the screen cables within the keypads themselves, I have a sneaky feeling one of these drain wires may be touching the back of the PCB and earthing it.

,

Jon

[MrHappy]

(my opinion not the boards)

why on earth install something which is too far away for you to support ?

(even if there family)

[goodwin]

Thanks for the responses guys.

It's not quite a chateau, but it holds plenty of wine and it may be haunted

I am told that it won't accept anything, neither a master user nor an engineers code. I asked whether any yellow lamps were illuminated on the keypads (3 no. in total, star wired) and they told me no, so no tampers? I can't understand why it would go off when unset like that, the only thing I could think of was a power surge, but isn't the battery supposed to mop these up and smooth out the supply?

I'm not too concerned about him taking the lid off the panel and restarting it, he's handy with electrical wiring etc. My concern is that programming won't be his strongpoint, and that if we restart the panel, will reprogramming be necessary? Will the NVRAM still hold the data with both supply and batt missing for a short period? My other worry is that this will happen again in 2 days and I'll be no nearer in helping them. There's an engineer by the name of Monsieur Didier in the nearby city, I don't fancy him snooping around and wagging his finger at my handiwork...

Thanks again,

Jon

area B is haunted