Zone Tamper 01-04 - Problem With Scantronic 9651

[martin691]

Exactly. with the 2k2 in, the zone will be seen as normal if the panel is in FSL mode.

Have you tried defaulting the panel?

If I take out the green wires in zone 3 and 4 (using a shared connector, which creates an O/C), then the Tamper messages disappear. Putting a 2k2 resistor in place has the same effect as the O/C. I do not understand why as this is not part of the tamper loop?

By defaulting the panel - Do you mean turning it off and then shorting the kick start pins. Turn it on, and then unshort the kickstart pins? This is what I have done.

I also did a 98 tick on the keypad which showed 'Load Default', to which I pressed 1 and tick, which reset everything.

For further info I did a 199 and tick, which gave the following data:

199: Circuit 01

Panel FR 0KO

199: Circuit 02

Panel NA 0KO

199: Circuit 03

Panel NA 0KO

199: Circuit 04

Panel NA 0KO

199: Circuit 05

Panel NU O/C

199: Circuit 06

Panel NU O/C

199: Circuit 07

Panel NU O/C

199: Circuit 08

Panel NU O/C

This is after I removed the wires shorting zone 5-8, which seems to have no effect.

I also did a walk test (command 97), which bleeped when I went past the 3 sensors, so I think that part works ok.

Thanks for the help so far.

[martin691]

I am attaching a PDF showing how I have done all the wiring.

The bit I am most unsure about is the External speaker and connecting that. It is an old external speaker and I think I will replace it anyway.

The circles in this represent the wires.

Thanks.

Martin.

Alarm system.pdf

[miaren]

I think its best to link out all zones, exit engineering and log the results, then add them back one by one. This will show whether the fault is on any of the zones.

Its a bit long winded but it tends to work.

Cant see any problem with the diagram, only the new external sounders sends a 0V to TR rather than linking it out.

Just out of interest what are the connections at the Smoke head and PIRs?

[martin691]

I think its best to link out all zones, exit engineering and log the results, then add them back one by one. This will show whether the fault is on any of the zones.

Its a bit long winded but it tends to work.

Cant see any problem with the diagram, only the new external sounders sends a 0V to TR rather than linking it out.

Just out of interest what are the connections at the Smoke head and PIRs?

Are you saying that the Tamper message, is not just a result of the tamper loop being broken, but it can also be from the Yellow and green wires going to the PIR or Smoke Sensor?

The connections in the Smoke head and PIR are shown in the attachment. The smoke head, was not wired by me, and is an old unit in an original alarm. I replaced everything except the smoke head and the external sounder.

I will investigate further tomorrow.

Thanks,

Martin.

Alarm system.pdf

[miaren]

Yep, could be..

I've had a trapped wire on a 9751 and that caused a tamper fault on all 8 zones, so it could be that or the existing kit may be wired differently.

Let us know the connections.

[Wooly-bobs]

The panel cycling through tamper 1-4 shows a fault on the global tamper cct not every zone, its just how its displayed.

Check for short between AUX and a zone or tamper.

[martin691]

Check for short between AUX and a zone or tamper.

I couldn't find any shorts.

I have found the problem to be with zone 3, if I take out the yellow and green wires the problem is sorted, but a zone is ommitted.

I have tried to work out the problem with zone 3. I have done the following tests:

1) checked the yellow and green wires are not broken, so shorted the yellow and green wires together at the PIR end and found there was almost zero resistance at the control unit end.

2) Walk test showed that it worked ok, and the lights on the PIR come on at the right time.

3) taken out all the wires in the PIR and put them in again, to make sure that one was not connecting properly.

4) I have tried a replacement PIR.

To me this means that the zone circuit seems ok, and the PIR works fine. The tamper circuit in zone 3 is still connected, so not touched the tamper circuit.

I am therefore a little confused, I will next try and replace the wires going to the PIR in zone 3. Does that sound like a reasonable thing to do?

I cannot imagine that it will make any difference though.

[miaren]

I would disconnect all the wires, at the panel, that go that PIR and ensuring they are not connected, check to see if any resistance can be read between any of them, ie red to yellow, green to black etc..

Try not to hold both wires to the end of the meter leads as the meter will read you, not the wires. (hold 1 wire by all means)

Zero resistance is a bit too low personally (unless the PIR is right beside the panel)

[martin691]

I would disconnect all the wires, at the panel, that go that PIR and ensuring they are not connected, check to see if any resistance can be read between any of them, ie red to yellow, green to black etc..

Try not to hold both wires to the end of the meter leads as the meter will read you, not the wires. (hold 1 wire by all means)

Zero resistance is a bit too low personally (unless the PIR is right beside the panel)

Hi, I have done that just before you wrote the reply.

There seems to be little resistance on any of the wires. 20 Ohms was the maximum that I could see. The odd thing is that when the wires are all connected in the PIR and all wires connected in the control unit, the resistance on the tamper coming in and coming out of the PIR seems to be about 1KOhm. All the other PIRS have minimal resistance, so the resistance must be coming from inside the PIR.

[martin691]

I think I found the problem. It looks as though one of the wires is damaged, but not sure where and cannot see any damage either. I joined the blue and white together at the Control unit side, then at the I measured the resisatnce at the PIR side and it was virtually zero. I then joined the blue and white together at the PIR side and then measured the resistance at the Control unit. The resistance is about 2KOhm. This should have been same of virtually zero, so I reckon some of the 6 wires are damaged and touching each other.

The damaged location will be hard to find as it looks like the alarm was installed at the same time as building the house, in some really hard to find locations.

Thanks for your help.

Martin.