Dualcom Gprs Grade 3 Dual Path Failure Reporting Times Test

[MrHappy]

Assuming the 1hr stated was current for device supplied its quite a poor show IMHO to take almost 5hrs.

[james.wilson]

It meets EN though for grade 3, but 5 hours for any signal at all is pretty useless.

[Adi]

Its shocking, i cant believe the reg makers think this is ok.

I reckon a lot of clients would be well pissed if they knew.

[james.wilson]

i miss your point Adi. I think some installers re aware but most IMO are not.

[reidy]

I suspect the way the people who make the regs will have looked at this is, is that it is catastrophic failure (i.e. not likely to happen). Unfortunately they don't seem to realise how simple it is to block GSM/GPS signals and cut telephone lines, you can do both outside the protected area for heavens sake

[Adi]

i miss your point Adi. I think some installers re aware but most IMO are not.

As i said mate, dont know another way to put it.

If clients knew if all comms where gone for what ever reason, that no one would know about it for hours - im sure they wouldnt be to happy, especially with todays technology.

I understand to poll every system, every few seconds, (1000's) of them, is a big undertaking, but 5 hrs or more is taking the you know what.

I'll admit, i never knew until this thread.

[james.wilson]

Ok i see what you mean now.

But i dont agree its the reg writers. I think its a belief that all dual path systems at any grade are similar. Some have always known that. Some have just thought that g2 is cheaper and still dual path so that will do.

re the polling issue etc. It can be done but the lower grades allow longer times before detection. IF you think back to pre en this wasnt regulated but there was only really redcare then which turned out to be a grade 4 signalling system.

But redcare gsm is a lot more per year to run than say a G2 dualcom/redcare secure. BBut its the grade that is key here. ie we cant compare a G3 dualcom to a G4 redcare GSM. The redcare unit will obviously perform better but it also costs more. Horses for courses etc.

I must admit mate i wasnt fully aware either. I knew i wouldnt get a confirmed line fail in any useful time on anything less than a Grade 4 system. But i did expect to get a single path failure within minutes.

What is key to this test for me is how a G4 dualcom performs and how a G3 redcare secure performs in this type of attack.

[james.wilson]

ARC Log now im in the office

08/03/12 04:59:31 O/C SCHEDULED OPEN zone: 4, GPRS path Early Open

08/03/12 10:05:46 PLACED ON TEST Cat: C1 Expires: 08/03/2012 11:05:00 Zones: 7

08/03/12 10:06:55 7 FIRE ALARM GPRS path

08/03/12 10:07:14 7 RESTORE GPRS path

08/03/12 23:24:48 O/C SCHEDULE CLOSE zone: 4, GPRS path Early Close

09/03/12 04:46:06 O/C SCHEDULED OPEN zone: 4, GPRS path Early Open

09/03/12 13:57:56 Contact Verified TD SECURE IT ALL (HALESOWEN)

09/03/12 15:17:57 2 TAMPER - GENERAL SGYPSRTESM path

09/03/12 15:18:00 2 TAMPER RESTORE GPRS path ABORT

09/03/12 20:18:55 13 DUAL PATH FAILURE

09/03/12 20:24:42 ALARM ACCESSED MP

09/03/12 20:25:06 AUTODIAL STARTED JAMES WILSON MP

09/03/12 20:25:35 CALL ANSWERED JAMES WILSON MP

[jimcarter]

I suspect the way the people who make the regs will have looked at this is, is that it is catastrophic failure (i.e. not likely to happen). Unfortunately they don't seem to realise how simple it is to block GSM/GPS signals and cut telephone lines, you can do both outside the protected area for heavens sake

Its shocking, i cant believe the reg makers think this is ok.

I reckon a lot of clients would be well pissed if they knew.

This is a bit off topic but there's some important comments here. James..if you end up reading this you may want to put it somewhere else..if you excuse the expression!

The reg makers are actually from within the Industry and nominated experts by the BSIA & BSI. These experts are normally employees of a manufacturer or some body within the industry. Each country nominates their own experts depending on the topic. Signalling is covered under EN50136 and my company is one of the nominated experts, CSL and Chubb have representation to.

Each country, each supplier have their own agendas. They want to protect their manufacturers interest and the manufacturers want to ensure that their products meet the standard. What we end up with, is a minimum requirement, and this is what the EN standards are.

What then happens, is that each country adds in it's own additional requirements that make improvements on those standards, and this is where product certification comes in. In Scandinavia it's DNV, in Germany its VDS, in the Benelux it's Telefication, France it's AFNOR. In the UK, we have the BRE and their LPS standards which actually cover more than just signalling. LPS1277 has been around for a long time, it's only Version 3 that has got some people hot under the collar.

Personally, I agree totally with LPS1277 V3 and it is clear that if someone can disable a dual path system the ARC/Client etc should know very quickly. That is, within 3 and a half minutes on IP/GPRS & 11 Minutes for GPRS/PSTN. EN gives you upto 5 hours at Grade 4(!), 24 Hours at Grade 3(!), that is not good enough and WebWayOne has always argued as such.

[james.wilson]

Update on this.

As breff stated due to its age this unit as tested is a G3 unit not a G3s unit. The G3s unit was launched in late 09 and this dualcom was installed in early 09.

I have attached the old and new pdf's that show the original grade 3 unit reports dual path failure in 5 hours. The G3s states that it reports this within 1 hour. I have not tested this yet.

As a note the grade 3 requirements are that a single path failure is reported within 5 hours and that both paths have failed within 25 hours. Obviously reporting a dualpath failure at 5 hours exceeds this.

This unit reported that both paths had failed at 5 hours. Id assume that a G3s unit will report this at 1 hour.

My own thoughts are that even 1 hour is too slow. I will update in other posts the same tests on redcare secure 3, webway grade 3 and 4 and I plan to do a grade 4 dualcom.

DualCom%20Range%20Features%20%20Benefits%20-%20Sept%2008.pdf

DualCom GradeShift® Range Specifications LR.pdf