Just Setting Up..

[Ronnie]

That's a different twist on the situation. I take your comment re the interviews as - done the courses (and not necessarily paid any attention) but lack the experience.

We can't afford to employ anyone who doesn't have experience so we've never taken apprenticeships seriously (although i would like to in the future when we can afford both the time & money) - so I've only ever interviewed guys who I would expect to be very experienced. Even then they can't do the task as above so it's hard to know really - even those with experience are some times no better than those without. I think there is definately an element of the right person just happening to be available at the right time - I'm furtunate that I have 2 great guys - both with their limitations but neither has any qualifications in this industry what so ever but their levels of experience balance each other out to make a bloody good team.

[PeterJames]

That's a different twist on the situation. I take your comment re the interviews as - done the courses (and not necessarily paid any attention) but lack the experience.

The apparent reluctance to recognise qualifications seems to be at odds with the argument that companies in the security profession should be accredited. Something not right with the argument there.

I may not of interpreted the above comment correctly, however, with respect Andrew, you do not have to have qualifications to install a system to the standard required by the accreditors. You just need to know and understand the standards

[jb-eye]

Experience counts

But i find it odd that people are knocking qualifications so strongly.

I hope i never came over that way.

I have been the advocate of many many apprenticeses over the years, supported our colledges and been involved with numerous training of our young people.

I said "Personnel knowledge of experience wins over qualification" which i beleive as i have employed some realy educated idiots in the past. I want the guys i know can deliver and unfortunetly in my exsperience education and exsperience dont always go hand in hand.

[Cubit]

Chaps,

I was not aiming my comments at anyone, just an observation of the comments made on 'qualifications' per se.

I agree with the consensus (as i read it) that the courses related to this industry can effectively be learnt 'on the job' if at the right company. Unfortunately that is not always the case. often do we come across guys who have only ever done service or install. Good at their own particular sector but struggle with the other side. This is an area where experience is usually a definite advantage. Apprenticeships usually give people this broad brush of knowledge.

Regarding qualifications, i'd they are valid and useful, assuming of course they are somewhat trade related. I'm still struggling to find a use for my Masters in Ancient Egyptian History lol. I fully accept that having a piece of paper stating this, that or whatever course has been passed does not, on its own, mean the guy is capable and competent. However, assuming the 'quals' are decent and sensible - not those from some tupenny bit Government scheme to keep the jobless figures down or dodgy College for no hopers - then at the very least, they show, or at least should, the ability to learn.

I fully agree with Pete's perspective on older skills/experience and todays kit. I'm in the same boat, been, seen done it but not needed these days. Repairs to board level just ain't worth it at 1st line level. If the kit is repairable, and valuable, back it goes to some second line repair shop. The skills and knowledge learnt from having done training to board level do stand you in good stead, probably more often than we realise.

I stand by the comment regarding qualifications and the inspectorates though. There seems to be a view that 'fings ain't what they used to be' or should be. Without Qualifications, i doubt they ever will be. This will only ever strengthen the publics perception of this industry. Whilst different trades - with different risks - Sparkies/Heating Engs etc generally have to do the relevant courses, whether we agree with it or not, it does give their repective industries a sounder base to fight from.

Like i say, experience is good but paperwork can help.

[Ronnie]

perhaps if our industry insisted on a passport (if you know what i mean) which listed experience / verifiable skills / courses & training / vetting / driving licence details and there were a minimum requirement in order to work within the industry then it might be more worthwhile and would possibly help to keep only those serious about what we do around and keep out the bob a job sparkies etc

[norman]

I also am a great believer of attitude over aptitude, we have a few who are very capable but unwilling, and I prefer the less capable but willing to try anything. I too stumbled into this industry from the TV and Video repair scene, I moved across (zig-zaged) when I saw the TV market becoming disposable. I think there are far better/easier ways to earn a living but I say I am well paid for what I do, especially when I speak with s.e people in the same trade. I do not expect to be in this trade for ever, and I think it's been devalued to a point where it's now untenable.

[jb-eye]

I think it's been devalued to a point where it's now untenable.

For employees?

I would agree that We/I dont pay our engineers enough for their skill set. Unfortunately its the industry that sets the pay level.

I beleive our engineers should earn flat rate cira £30k +benifits and OT and more in some cases. Unfortunately the industry re-charges dictate.

I am also from a diffrent industry and this is the easiest thing i have ever done. The proffits can be substantial if you run it as a bussiness rather than a trade.

[PeterJames]

For employees?

I would agree that We/I dont pay our engineers enough for their skill set. Unfortunately its the industry that sets the pay level.

I beleive our engineers should earn flat rate cira £30k +benifits and OT and more in some cases. Unfortunately the industry re-charges dictate.

I am also from a diffrent industry and this is the easiest thing i have ever done. The proffits can be substantial if you run it as a bussiness rather than a trade.

QFA there are too many people out there willing to fit an alarm for a bag of crisps and a luncheon voucher, this devaluates the industry and in turn dictates wages

[richardthatcher]

QFA there are too many people out there willing to fit an alarm for a bag of crisps and a luncheon voucher, this devaluates the industry and in turn dictates wages

AGREED

[Rulland]

QFA there are too many people out there willing to fit an alarm for a bag of crisps and a luncheon voucher, this devaluates the industry and in turn dictates wages

Bollox-forgot about the crisps!-reminder mail drop to the customers it is then!.