Replacing on old (very) CQR Alarms system

[Guest NeilE]

Here's one for the veterans amongst you. My property has an antique (c '80) system based on a relay-and-micro-switch panel made by G. W. Lowe of Oldham. It still works perfectly (with the original battery that holds a voltage!!) though I doubt for long in a power cut.

I want to replace the panel with something like a Menvier TS400, retain the hard bit (the wiring) and replace the original sensors as the windows and doors are being replaced too, keeping the same basic sensor design and mix.

My question is really all about sounders and bells and SCB versus SAB. In summary can I use the existing external (and maybe internal) bell as is?

There's an external bell box in a traditional CQR casing; no strobe or LED. There's an internal bell too (a Friedland) that makes a hell of a row so I had thoughts on retaining that it possible.

I'm familiar with modern SCB sounders and the concept of Hold circuits (+ and -) and bell and strobe triggers plus tamper return etc. Also the idea that a modern bell box has it's own battery and tamper switch(es).

I haven't been up the ladder yet to see what's in the box. On the panel, there's only a "Bell + and - " connection going off to the bell cable. When the alarm is on (set or unset) there's 0v across these points and when I hit the Bell Test switch we get 12v across them (and the bell rings of course). So it looks like this is a straight bell trigger. I can't see anything that looks like a bell hold circuit and indeed, when I cut the mains and disconnect the backup panel battery, the external bell doesn't sound - but maybe if there is a battery in the external box it's well deceased by now.

There's also a wire pair from the same (bell) cable connecting to the panel marked "SCB". As this is right next to a panel connection marked "24 hour" I guess this is the tamper circuit for the bell?

I realise that the sensible thing to do is replace the whole external bell box with a modern sounder (and I will) but this means running 6-core to replace 4-core through a difficult cable run. So as a quick fix - can I just wire up the above existing + and - bell wires to the 0v and positive Bell Trigger on a new panel? And if I'm right about the "SCB" connection these can go into the bell tamper circuit on the new panel too?

The panel has a 1 amp fuse marked "Bell" so it seems to be compatible with modern panel bell outputs. The existing panel also has separate connections for the internal bell and functions independently (i.e. sounds on alarm but not on Bell Test). I know I can't retain this function but could I use the internal bell paralleled with the external? I guess I'd have to check load current ratings. I also know that the panel itself serves this function with an optional internal loudspeaker/sounder so I can junk the internal bell if it's easier.

And finally, can you define SCB versus SAB for me. "Self Actuating Bell" and "Self Contained Bell" seem to be the same concept to me. By inference reading forums and manuals, SAB = bell powers itself (kicked off by a -ve trigger or lack of hold + and -); SCB = bell is powered and controlled from the panel. So in the case on the old Lowe panel above it's an SCB in that the panel provides the trigger and power as one circuit?

[mr silcox]

hi

your system must be over 16 years old as the comapany i did my apprentiship with tookover all the service side from cqr

first of all a sab unit is powered by the panel it has a 12v 0v power (know as hold off ) as well as a trigger 12v or 0v (and of coures a tamper return)

so unless it's tampered with it will only ring when it gets it's trigger

scb normally has a bigger back up battery it does not reqire a trigger just the revoval of the hold off voltage

hope this helps

[abbz]

some bells can use 4 core cable as strobes and sounder are connected internally otherwise other option would be to link together bell trig and strobe trig in bell. granted that u will only get both sounding and flashing for 20 mins but thats what i prefer anyway instead of a strobe flashing for days on end. just a thought

[Guest Affinity]

Good morning Neil

Just read your post

I will know tomorrow if I can get hold of the c80 instructions for you or not this system is about 25 years old One of the technical guys here worked with CQR when we installed and thinks he may have a copy of the instructions at home. Hope this helps

Regards

Linda

call me on 0151 606 6303 if u require further help

[Guest Affinity]

hi Neil

I have got a copy of the instructions from 25 years ago hope they are ok .....now ....where do you want me to send them.............talking of which would you like a copy Dave? the original was starting to fade but i think you can manage to read everything.

Linda