Approved Co Ooop North

[alterEGO]

And many other Golds too.

Potential customer insists on an Alarm, Bells only, wants a decent system but at a sensible/slightly keen price and says stuff your cert,. Gold is not over run with work. Does Gold refuse the job or let the local cheap as chips fcktard get the work?

Bottom line is.

Do NSI dictate how you earn a living or does the company Management?

There are lots who do not and have not certed all their jobs for a long time, in both NSI and SSAIB. Not alot can be done about that, but to advertise it, ball out, just took the piss. Thankfully we are not in a postion that a cheap none cert alarm would ever be worth doing, but others are and will continue to do it.

Our new admin lady came from one of the bigger and better thought of local firms (made redundant, bad times ), and to say they were rough would be kind. For the first month dhe could not understand why we did all this 'extra stuff', now she can't understand how they got away with not doing it!

[Cubit]

There are lots who do not and have not certed all their jobs for a long time, in both NSI and SSAIB. Not alot can be done about that, but to advertise it, ball out, just took the piss. Thankfully we are not in a postion that a cheap none cert alarm would ever be worth doing, but others are and will continue to do it.

Our new admin lady came from one of the bigger and better thought of local firms (made redundant, bad times ), and to say they were rough would be kind. For the first month dhe could not understand why we did all this 'extra stuff', now she can't understand how they got away with not doing it!

Many of the companies didn't/don't hide it from the Jobsworth inspector. They told him, then told him they ain't changing either.

[Wyatthaplo]

wyatt. if you want to find a way of installing what you like and not issuing certs then adt and me is your route. however the adt hole will be plugged and the question does make me doubt your motives?

I don't want to 'find a way' to install what I like. I want to install things correctly and I do, I don't know everything and I doubt anyone knows every single regulation about our industry so yes occasionally I may have a minor deviation on installs. I have common sense though and I like to think I know Most things especially the big things.

What question did I ask that makes you question my motives?

[alterEGO]

I don't know everything and I doubt anyone knows every single regulation about our industry so yes occasionally I may have a minor deviation on installs.

I would disagree with that. Many companies out there don't know the ins and outs of the standards, and that is not on but there are some who make it their business to comply with them. You will find many on here so you are in the right place to learn.

[Paul Giles]

Thing is it is all a bit of a nonsense.

Its all got too slack.

The issue of a certificate should be requested by the insurance company and only a cover note issued until said certificate is produced.

Had one the other day, the insurance company just want redcare, ok i said can you confirm what grade etc they are expecting and also if Police response required (it was a takeover with Gal 60 and FX 35 etc so very old).

Response came back, they just want redcare so they can tick their box.

Nothing is done to enforce these issues from what i can see.

And as for certifying a certificate then thats a waste of money.

NSI silver and SSAIB are able to get URN's as are Golds so there is no reason to certify a certificate?

[Scotmod]

My thoughts on the inspectorate and certification are well known on this board. Jobs like this need to be put in to context before we all start chipping in. Was it a house? Some crappy industrial unit? A jewelers? We all have **** on our books as someone rightly said. If the customer wants something to just *work* then that may very well be the case with this system. I can empathize with both James and Wyatts position. I agree that no one should be put into a roll like he has without a *lot* of "education" under his belt. But aren't we all still learning? Keeping up with the umpteen new regs, manufacturers changes, the engineer that wants to get home at 5 for his dinner?

There is no grass roots training for the industry anymore. A few college courses and manufacturers doing CPD's doesn't cut it. Not when you have two bodies keeping everyone in check. I've been doing a bit of talking recently to a few friends and contacts and our industry reputation is down the toilet. We are snake oil salesmen living under a banner of smoke screens and grey standards. The people specifying, doing the checking, installing the kit. We are all so fragmented. People just want clarity and ease of use. Why can't we as an industry just give them it and make everyones lives that bit easier?

The client base no longer wants to be involved. As Paul has said above, they just want to tick their box. Get the insurers happy and carry on with their own problems.

[james.wilson]

id like us as an industry to be led by police and insurers.

The insurers have spoken imo

LPS 1277 is their voice

currently its pure signalling and installation methods to go with.

i do agree with what what they are trying to do, but i dont agree with lps being outside of EN

myself and a few others spent a lot time on form 10x which was wasted

I think lps 1277 is a good std but

I dont agreewith the BRE creating regs on their own. its outside of proper comment. However i do agree with the principle goal.

IMO signalling is the thin end, it will be a whole reg. just for the uk in the long term.

[Scotmod]

But again it's just more information to confuse everyone. Will it be EN/PD/DD/LS/BS. Someone needs to take control, wipe the slate clean and say this is the ONE standard that we will use. Nothing more. But on the other foot, the more you can confuse someone by lobbing information/standards/words the easier you can control them. Hence why we have the inspectorates.

My biggest bug bear is how our standards can be interpreted. What is the bloody point of that? If/would/should/could should be stricken out. Hence why we get debates and arguments on this board over just one of the standards etc. Why is it not black and white for all to read and understand.

[james.wilson]

no std is black and white. id prefer it was but it isnt.

[Scotmod]

no std is black and white. id prefer it was but it isnt.

True, Just as no law is black and white. But the ones for our reason seem written to be open for such wild interpretations. Yes, there does need to be some give and taken in some aspects but the fact we have various installers etc from all over the country working to the same standard and getting different answers is just a bit boggling to me.