Guest Guest Posted August 20, 2004 Posted August 20, 2004 Okay Love them or loathe them, sooner or later you will come across either NSI (Nacoss) or the SSAIB, perhaps as an engineer or as company manger or a business start-up in order to install a monitored alarm system. They both have a very similar remit, in that they inspect independent installation companies and control the issue of compliance certificates, provide a method of recourse in the event of customer complaint, they both liaise with industry and standards institutions. But do they do enough for us, are they really in touch with our industry or are they simply following a procedure? If you were to reshape an inspectorate or start one what would you want from them? My points would be: Vetting to BS7858 all principals vetted by the inspectorate and all staff by the installer. Company to have access to a standard set of forms and documents. New start companies can, subject to vetting join the inspectorate at an incubator level at day one, not allowed to install Monitored systems for a minimum of six months. Each company has a mentor to ensure the correct standards are fulfilled and that problems are addressed correctly. Mentor Industry active and able to assist with 24hr callouts, probably across district or anti competition agreement. New starts can attain approved installer status after six months, subject to a company audit. Existing companies jobs are inspected at random by the inspectorates inspectors from certificates sent to the inspectorate offices, arranged directly with the client on the morning of the inspection the Installer asked to attend the client
jb-eye Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 Pipe dreams! Some very valid points, Unfortunately there is a bigger picture. All industries are commercially driven. CORGI doesn’t prohibit you connecting gas in your own home and gas connections are freely available at B&Q. Security manufacturers will sell there equipment to the devil (except a small few) wholesalers are open for cash offers to the public. All you need to do to become a security installer is have transport ladders and tools, you don’t need security screening in fact a criminal record could help. The inspectorate do a good job but are only there so companies with integrity can be seen to set themselves above the rest. Now even then some companies join inspectorates for commercial reward. ARC,s will also accept connections from non inspectorate companies and there are many companies that have found a way around the inspectorate and URN system in obtaining a Police response. The support of the major buyers is one invaluable source of supporting the inspectorates and also the support of the insurers and police. These are all falling down. For example my local council have a best buy policy and don’t ask for inspectorate status. I did a large multi hundred-site contract for security in my electrical contracting days before I knew of NACOSS and the insurer accepted me because they didn’t want to loose the massive premiums. This Industry will remain commercially driven until it has the power of Law behind it such as has happened with gas & electrical. Jef Customers!
Service Engineer Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 At the moment you can install a compliant system, with wires tacked all over the place and trunking here and there, and so long as its installed to regs itll pass any inspection. I have seen many jobs that would have been sooo much neater with only an extra few hours or so added to the job. I`d like to see companies graded by its neatness of installation, how well cables are hidden, how well the detector positioning has been thought out etc etc. My boss always asks "how long will it take..?" I usually give him two answers, one if I install it, and the other if our installer installs it. It`s always longer if I do the job. Guess who usually gets picked..? Why choose quantity over quality..? When most customers would rather have it the other way and pay a bit more. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer)
j.paul Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 Pipe dreams!Possibly but only time will tell on that one I`d like to see companies graded by its neatness of installation, how well cables are hidden, how well the detector positioning has been thought out etc etc. A good point Dave, fitting a detector wall is the easy part, getting the wires to the detector so you can't see the them is the skilled part. I know of a few companies that feel that its time for a change and that they are actively working to set up a new "INSTALLER NETWORK" If anybody requires any more info on the "INSTALLER NETWORK" then PM me or Colin Paul There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
jb-eye Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 My boss always asks "how long will it take..?" I usually give him two answers, one if I install it, and the other if our installer installs it. I always gauge an installation on how long it would take me. My engineers invariably take longer. Our inspectorate never look at our installations any closer than the control terminations or visible cables. Lets go back to my electrical days I would use containment over ceilings drill fix fire cables and have clean looking ceiling voids, then the BT & Alarm cowboys come in and install a web of clutter, in both cases these guys are members of inspectorates. Now do I have bad jobs? Yep the ones we take over. But like everyone else I look at the bottom line. As long as it complies we will maintain it. Jef Customers!
jb-eye Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 Im am quoting former Chief Constable Richard Childs on his view of a Police prospective in regard to inspectorates, some of you may well be alarmed “I am supportive of PROPER quality Inspections as provided by NSI, and critical of organisations that in my view, just rubber stamp”. Who does he mean? jef Customers!
Service Engineer Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 what do installers want from an inspectorate Actual Installers..? or are we talking about Installation Company Managers..? ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer)
jb-eye Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 what do installers want from an inspectorate Actual Installers..? or are we talking about Installation Company Managers..? Don’t see how it matters. The higher the quality company, usually the higher quality the engineer and in that respect salary. Everyone benefits from higher standards we just have to find a way of imposing them. jef Customers!
Guest Guest Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 The only way this will ever happen is if we lose all the cheap diy stuff and every engineer was trained from the beginning.I don
jb-eye Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 Alarm Guard You are clearly concerned at the state of the industry and I admire your passion. You have raised far to many points to discus on a forum page. You passion is shared and for those that have attend a North West regional meetings will confirm I share your passion and do stand up to be counted. Individually I have sought to fight unfair issues such as the sequad. I have written to NACCOSS and the chairman on this issue and have been bullied by their response. As a side issue a previous NSI meeting revolt on Sequad was quashed with the issue of SSIB membership applications (A story told by my NSI inspector). Jef Customers!
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