Acpo Approved Inspectorates.

[Guest Guest]

Well i thought it was funny

It probably would have been, had we not been talking about about such a serious subject.

For the sceptical viewers out there, who think that we are talking about something that could never happen. Then think again, you only have to look at the origins of the SSAIB to see that anything is possible if you stand up and fight for your industry.

There are more and more european regulations being imposed and in reallity do they improve or detract from the security of a protected premises or do they simply aid in the abillity to blame someone if it goes wrong.

We all install systems everyday, they all need mains power, Harmonisation is upon and Part P Jan 2005, so what have our inspectorates done -- We dont inspect the mains side, we leave that to the electrical associations. The reality is, that if you inpect the installation then you should inspect the whole installation, as faulty mains connection is more serious than a missing grommet or poorly installed pir cable. It should be the whole job that is inspected not just the bit that fits the regs.

Having to join another inspectorate simply to comply with the building regulations shouldn't be needed, if your inspectorate wont adapt when they have had years to do so, do you really think that they have the installers best interests in mind. Inspectorates forget that they are there purley because of their membership, if there was no membership then there would be no Inspectorate. Inspectorates need to adapt and change to meet the needs of their members, not simply to meet the salary needs of the directors, managers and support staff.

Colin.

[Service Engineer]

For the sceptical viewers out there, who think that we are talking about something that could never happen. Then think again, you only have to look at the origins of the SSAIB to see that anything is possible if you stand up and fight for your industry.

I`d like nothing more than for this new inspectorate to actually take off Colin, but until its ACPO approved (which could take ages), then I imagine that companies would not give up their current Approved inspectorate, which means they would have to consider the benefits of belonging to two, of which I can see no benefit at this very early stage.

Also lets say you do get some interested parties and the SSAIB or NSI start to look upon this new inspectorate as a serious competitor, they aren`t gonna just let you get on with it. They are just too big and have too much control over the industry, and if the worst come to the worst one of them would either buy you out (if your lucky) or just start implementing some or all of your polices to regain any lost custom, which is all we want in the 1st place so wont be a bad thing.

Surely the best way to approach this in the 1st instance would be to get a petition started, and signed by all companies in agreeance with your suggestions and presenting this to both the major inspectorates and also submitting it for publication to the editor of a major "in the Trade" magazine such as the "Security Installer"..?

[Brian c]

Surely the best way to approach this in the 1st instance would be to get a petition started, and signed by all companies in agreeance with your suggestions and presenting this to both the major inspectorates and also submitting it for publication to the editor of a major in the Trade magazine such as the "Security Installer"..?

Excellent idea.

I think colin was saying that the 'network' would'nt have to be an inspectorate. even an advisory body to the NSI for installers that maybe carried some weight.

I'm sure if enough companies were a member of the network, the NSI would have to take it seriously and, hopefully, implement recommendations from the network.

That would certainly be a good start

:0)

[morph]

Petitions are only as effective as the age of the issue, our industry has to evolve to be able to stay in touch with reality, a pettition would not allow you to do this. As one of the previous posters said it took the mass presentation of SSAIB application forms to get the NSI to change there mind, dont reckon a petition would do much.

Yes, any new Inspectorate would have to be accredited, this accreditation would be by UKAS and not by ACPO as you mention. ANY Inspectorate that is UKAS accredited complies with the requirements of ACPO, thus Police forces would be able to issue URN's to the networks members.

Yes, the Inspectorates will fight hard to prevent a third Inspectorate taking off, but there again you would expect that, competition is healthy for all.

The "Installer Network" does not intend to set itself up as a an "Inpectorate" the intention is that the Network will become a voice within our industry that engineers and compnies will be members of. The "Network" will then champion the issues of the day, lobbying Acpo, ABI, BSI manufacturers and the government alike etc. At present NSI and SSAIB don't work together due to the were better then they are attitude. The "Network" intends to be a one stop shop for all alarm companies whether they approved or not, but are prepared to meet a minimum standard of work and build upon that.

If the "Installer Network" members want the network to become the UK's third Inspectorate then it will evolve an in due course this will be achieved(about 12 months from application to certification) Remember the "Installer Network" is run by installers for installers.

Colin.

[Nova-Security]

Inspectorate run by installers for installers............setup and run by installers.........dont go there. I was one of many installers that set up a inspectorate run by ourselfs, was a good idea so we did it. It was called the Greater Manchester Alarm Association (ACPO Approved), but the problem was installers not certificatating every job and other things, So there was no money to run it. it lasted about two years then a merger with Integrity 2000 for 6 months them to the SSAIB (time to jump ship) I am not having a go at anybody so dont take this the wrong way but, there used to be a inspectorate called the AISC in southport if you could not meet the requirements to join NSI or SSAIB then you just paid youre fee and your in, so what was this all about and why did we need inspectorates if you could just join.

NSI and Sequad detectors, i was talking to the Optex rep on friday 20/08/04 and Optex are getting ready for a big battle with the NSI (unshure what he meant by this, must be a legal battle) and he refused to talk the sequads back saying that NSI companies will be able to use them.

Richard

[jb-eye]

As i said earlier this is to big for a discussion on a forum to many ideas too much in put with to many views.

What appears to be coming through is a trade body is required not an inspectorate we have this in electrical contracting where the NICEIC is our inspectorate and the ECA is our trade body. Both these organisations make an impact on standards. As I have said to many issues.

Jim Torrance helped launch the GMAA I went to the first meeting “put your name down & a fiver in the box and your now a member” one company was asked to leave the room, the rest were members (I wasted £5 and left the room voluntarily). NSI has written to all its installers re: Part P. They have also written to installers and made it clear they will no longer tolerate companies that do the minimum and will start to sort them out. Like them or loathe them they are the most professional of bodies.

With regard to being counted I have offered to sue Optex and asked NSI to defend my position. I expected to loose but this would settle the argument and therefore I win a war by loosing a battle.

Jef

[TSS]

If NSI or SSIAB had the same presidence as CORGI does to gas we wouldnt be in the shape we,re in now.

21159[/snapback]

Peter, I shudder to think what would happen....

We all want our industry to be a better, more reliable, more profitable entity, but what the inspectorates are blind to is that little fact that paperwok cost money.

Statistics cost money to produce, and all of it can be manipulated to suit the cause its written for!

On one of our security sites, a sparky has installed a fire alarm and it has been signed off as being correct and compliant. If we had installed it under the nacoss gold banner it would have been a reinspection if we hadnt been struck off! The sound calculations obviously havent been done as there arent enough sounders and is not compliant with the disability discrimination act...

We didnt get the job by about 20k... the customer has the neccessary paperwork to say its compliant....

James

[TSS]

if your inspectorate wont adapt when they have had years to do so, do you really think that they have the installers best interests in mind.

Inspectorates forget that

they are there purley because of their membership, if there was no membership then there would be no Inspectorate.

Inspectorates need to adapt and change to meet the needs of their members,  not simply to meet the salary needs of the directors, managers and support staff.

Hear Hear

[Service Engineer]

Petitions are only as effective as the age of the issue, our industry has to evolve to be able to stay in touch with reality, a pettition would not allow you to do this.

Perhaps not Colin, but as a first line of getting your points accross there`s no better way.

The "Installer Network" does not intend to set itself up as a an "Inpectorate" the intention is that the Network will become a voice within our industry that engineers and compnies will be members of.

Their are already many powerful voices in our Industry, what makes you think that the voice of your "Installer Network" will be any louder than the rest.

[Guest Guest]

Petitions are only as effective as the age of the issue, our industry has to evolve to be able to stay in touch with reality, a pettition would not allow you to do this.

Perhaps not Colin, but as a first line of getting your points accross there`s no better way.

Probably Dave, but realistically how many pettitions would it take to sort out our industry and the logistics of petition would be a nightmare.

The "Installer Network" does not intend to set itself up as a an "Inpectorate" the intention is that the Network will become a voice within our industry that engineers and compnies will be members of.

Their are already many powerful voices in our Industry, what makes you think that the voice of your "Installer Network" will be any louder than the rest.

Yes there are lots of powerful voices in our industry, but how many actually represent the installer?

And as with most things in life, if we dont try we will never know, installers can choose to be with the "Installer Network" or not. One thing is for certain the network members opinions will be heard.