Acpo Approved Inspectorates.

[Service Engineer]

One thing is for certain the network members opinions will be heard.

Fair play to you then Colin, what`s the plan of action..?

[Guest Guest]

Dave, I will be posting full details of the network soon, the founder members are finalising the initial details and want to ensure that any installer who does wish to join the new network can get a fair and correct view of what we want to achieve.

Colin.

[Brian c]

Count me in.....when I'm up and running!

[Guest]

sounds like a cartel to me and you may get a lot of backstabbing..were all competiters after all.....the bottom line is the industry needs to be more professional full stop,the customers are to blame,there quite happy with the one man and his van brigade with 'i do anything ltd on the side of his van' as opposed to the large and small installers who invest a lot of money in cars,uniform,paperwork etc..just coz your small doesnt mean you cant act big..i would stop diy stores selling s**t gear,suppliers should only supply to those who are qualified,not just companies as there a alot of people out there doing private work to standards but are quallified to do so..the sparkys industry is showing the way with part p..we should maybe hook up with them instead

[Brian c]

There is no real qualification for alarm engineers, is there?

I know they have a NVQ for alarm engineering but it's not that well recognised and certainly not required. I did a 2 year NVQ in electrical installation and associated electronics before starting in alarms and I think this gave me a great advantage in understanding security sytems (I still lacked practical experience, though). Without it, I believe, I would still be stumbling my way through faults and 'learning by numbers' instead of approaching any new system/fault with a sound basic knowledge of how it MUST work. A basic (at least) understanding of electrical theory is a necessity in this industry. I think this is an issue that should be high on your new agenda. There should be a required qualification to work as a security systems engineer, just as there is with electricians. Care is needed , though, as Joe Bloggs can get a van with 'electrical contractor' on it and endanger lives day in, day out, so long as he is deemed competent (by whom?), according to current electrical regulations. Although a cowboy engineer may not be as potentially fatal, the reputation of the good guys would still suffer and the qualifications they had might as well be useless. ( The recent 'strikes' by electricians in Manchester due to unskilled, low paid labour are a prime example.)

Qualifications for alarm engineers would at least show the candidate has an understanding of 'how it works' even if they need to gain the practical experience. At least new engineers to the trade would understand why and what they were testing, rather than just copying what they'd been shown. Anyone can learn to repeat a process. Not everyone can get their head round electrics/electronics and if they don't pass the exam, they don't get in. As well as being beneficial to customer and company, engineers might even end up being worth a bit more for what we know.

[jb-eye]

if they don't pass the exam, they don't get in.

Sorry don’t agree! Qualifications will only help you get an interview. If you cant cut the job you will be found out and removed. I have taken the training route for years in fact we are guilty of over training. The best training is on site hands on experience. We keep up to date records of what our engineers know and we test them bi annually by auditing to identify shortcomings on installation & dd+5839+4737+5266+7671. I wish i had other resource,s besides our local Tech (they don’t seem to learn much there). My qualifications for a CV

1 Driving test.

2 Cycling proficiency

3 Length certificate

Should i be removed from the industry?

[Brian c]

if they don't pass the exam, they don't get in.

Sorry don

[jb-eye]

would you not be willing to complete a half day course with exam, for example?

The thought scares me to death, but if i must i will. Bit like the NICEIC they insisted on inspection and test certification. Now I’ve done inspection and testing for 30years so i ask "am i doing something wrong" No they reply you just need a certificate to prove you can do it. "Who wants to see this certificate?” i ask. Your employer! At this point they realise that i am the employer.

Remember this I left school at 15 served my time as an electrician and have been in business for 25 years. I have three children who have all graduated university. I operate a thriving business, and consider my staff technically excellent. I have generations of ex trained employees who have moved to other disciplines some commanding £60k salaries who still contact me on technical issues. It’s a difficult balance and I think I have it right.

Jeff

[Brian c]

I understand your point of view, but people in your position would not have to be 'tested' as you are a time served electrician, same with a qualified electrician, you have already proved you have the basic knowledge needed. Even if you were to be tested just for the sake of certification, though, it would only need to be basic theory and yourself and others in your position would find it so easy that it would only be a minor inconvenience to take it. Alternatively, it could be set up so that people who can prove they have been active in the trade for a certain number of years could automatically qualify?

I'm not saying people need to be qualified, People like yourself with no qualifications but 30 odd years under their belt will know and understand more than I and 'newley qualified engineers' ever will.

I just think it's a good idea to have some kind of minimum standard for new engineers.

[jb-eye]

Thanks for that

I’ve already been told i am to be given a certificate based on such a scheme

i didn’t take much notice at the time but apparently a guy from college looks at three jobs and im qualified. Did i mention that i am also audited by my own engineers? they love it. Its called pay back time.

jef