Guest aquiesce Posted January 26, 2003 Posted January 26, 2003 Hi Dave, I didnt really know if you had a section for helping ppl with problems so im just gonna go ahead and ask in here if thats OK? A couple of years ago I installed an Alarm system in my home after being burgled (usual story i bet ) anyway I do pretty much everything myself in the house and very much like yourself I am self tought at a lot of things e.g. plastering, bike mechanics, joinery and cabinet making, elctronics,domestic electrics and on and on but like you said i dont want to rant on about it . Alarm systems are not something i was ever familiar with but as always I thought what the hell I'll install my own I've got two arms and two legs like the next bloke and I dont need to rush it so off I went to find a good system. I opted for the Gardiner Technology Gardtech 580 with Twin 7 Segment RKP and a Gardtech Speech Dialer so I installed the sytem in about a week you know a bit after work each day and all was fine. Now about two or three months ago I awoke to find that the display was showing "Fb" so I got out the install manual and the code meant Battery Fail or Blown Fuse so i went and bought new fuses and every time i put them in they blow instantly so i thought hmmmm common sense says I got a short somewhere also when I pull the + lead on the battery backup the fuse goes in and is OK then I cant set the system until the battery is reconnected so i reconnect it and bang goes the fuse again so I'm thinking I definately got a short somewhere so of I go checking each cable for continuity etc and I have got to the point where I have disconnected all the passives, the bell box and the dialer and rkp and still the fuse blows so thats where I am at right now BTW the reason its been 3 months is coz I am working away any help would be greatly appreciated thanks Paul PS Great site keep it up
Service Engineer Posted January 26, 2003 Posted January 26, 2003 Hi Paul, welcome to the forum. Boy im glad you picked a panel i know like the back of my hand Youve done all the correct things so far, seems to me you know a little about what your doing. Looks like either a Battery fault (have you tried another battery)..? Or a failure on the panels charging circuit (oh owhh new panel required) Gardner will replace it with no hastle. Whats the AUX, SAB and Battery lead voltages when the battery isnt connected. Oh and just so`s you know, the panel will set without a battery backup, the first time it just warns you, just re enter your code and next time it should proceed to set. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer)
Guest aquiesce Posted January 26, 2003 Posted January 26, 2003 Thanks for the quick reply dave very efficient i must say Firstly no I have not tried a new battery although i did test it and im getting good constant juice from it The Voltages are as follows:- Battery Lead 13.66v AUX 0.00v SAB 0.00 but thats because the 1 amp fuse on the board marked 1A Q/B AUX12V has gone surely???? As when i test the voltage going into the fuse I get 13.66 again but the fuse fillament itself is blown oh oh I think I just realised what you meant what a dumb ass I am Did you mean disconnect the batt replace the fuse so its not gonna blow and then do those test i think you did well if thats the case I have no more 1 amp fuses left i bought a pack of ten and with continuing test have blown them all And also as you said the panel will set without a batt backup I thought that also but it wont as when teh batt is removed and the fuse replaced i then get zone errors on all zones and "fb" error none of my pir's are lit and the bell box led's are out so thats what I am saying the only power I am really getting is from the mains to the panel beyond that there is nothing thats why I definately was going for a short circuit in the six core somewhere?
Service Engineer Posted January 26, 2003 Posted January 26, 2003 If the main 1 amp fuse only blows when the battery is connected then there is a short in the battery, which you may or may not be able to detect with a multimeter. Or am i mistaken in what you are saying..? Q: Does the fuse blow with everything connected except the battery..? ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer)
Guest aquiesce Posted January 26, 2003 Posted January 26, 2003 No you are right in what you are saying the 1amp fuse blows only when I reconnect the + terminal on the battery so your saying that teh battery has a short ? Hmmm surely if it had a short then the battery would be flat no? it gives 13.66 v when i checked should I do a simple continuity test across the terminals or is it a more in depth sort of fault ?
Service Engineer Posted January 26, 2003 Posted January 26, 2003 Depends on what sort of multimeter you have, you may not detect a dead short. But it really does sound to me as though the battery is faulty. Why else would everything be ok until it is connected. If you had a short on one of your cables the fuse would blow regardless of wether the battery is connected. Batteries can normally be expected to last 5 years, if the air circulation around the main control panel is ok, and the overall temperature is fairly cool. If your panel is located in an airing cupboard for instance the battery will more than likely have its lifetime significantly reduced. Shake the battery and check to see it doesnt rattle, if it does this indicates the Gel has crystalised and the battery is no good. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer)
Guest aquiesce Posted January 27, 2003 Posted January 27, 2003 Damn just bought a new battery and it was not the fault I didnt think it was but I suppose you hotta be 100% sure really I think I can get a refund from Maplins anyway but more to the point im still knackered . I did the tests that you said an I got 0.00v from the SAB 0.16v from the AUX and 12.67v from the new battery(I imagine its dropped a little with it being on the shelf??) and 13.66 from my old battery so I now know that the AUX is way down innit? I think ? you see I dont know if I'm on the right lines or not but the way I was thinking was if the buzz bar if you like with all the panel connections on is getting the right voltage and theres a short somewhere then i connect the batt and it gets another 12v then thats whats blowing the fuse? Im not exactly sure but as you said in one of your replys if everything is ok until the batt is connected then it must be the battery................... well its not all OK when the batt is off it still gives errors on zones 3 & 4 (Which are both PIR's) and obviously the batt fault so do you think there is some problem with power getting to the panel coz thats what it seems to me ??
Service Engineer Posted January 27, 2003 Posted January 27, 2003 With a new 1 amp fuse in placed in the LHS of where all the connections go, you should have near enough 13.8Vdc (+/_ 10%) at the AUX terminals and between the Bell+ and Hold- terminals, and also at the battery lead terminals. The backup battery is only used when the mains supply disapears, i.e.when you have a power cut. At all other times when the mains is on your backup battery is just being trickle charged. If its not gonna cause too much hastle, then try disconnecting all device cabling from the panel, I want to know if the main AUX fuse blows when no devices are connected, and wether when you then try to connect the battery if the fuse blows again. You are changing the 1 amp AUX fuse arent you and not the internal mains fuse..? ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer)
Guest aquiesce Posted January 28, 2003 Posted January 28, 2003 i tried removing all the wiring and I still get no voltages at those points also with the fuse back in an the batt removed and all teh wiring out as soon as i reconnect the batt it blows again (Yes I am changing the AUX fuse ) so i tested right from the consumer unit up I got 240 to the spur , 240 in to the tranny then 18.17 coming out of the tranny and then when I pull the PCB out of the panel I get a similar voltage accross the fuse solder points but then its dissapearing somewhere so what you think a new PCB ?? or should I just ring Gardiner?
Service Engineer Posted January 28, 2003 Posted January 28, 2003 You should have 13.6 volts or there about at the AUX outputs and between the Bell+ and hold- terminals at all times. If this voltage isnt there then the fuse has either blown or the panel is cream crackered. Sorry to say mate AND youve done everything correctly so far, but for some reason your control panel is not supplying voltages at terminals it should be. Looks like a new control panel is required. If you hold your test meter probes so that the AUX- is connected and move the Positive probe across the terminals you should get voltages of 13.6 volts at: AUX+, and BELL+ and also at the BATTERY+ lead. The 1AMP fuse youve been replacing allows voltages at all these points. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer)
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