Premier 48

[Guest toasty]

Hello chaps,

First post here, although I have been lurking in the shadows for some time now.

All very interesting stuff, and a great site, I've enjoyed reading lots of the old posts.

First a bit about me, live in Bristol, just about to move house to a 3 bed with garage. Currently have a self installed Secuirit 7 zone system with a couple SABs, all windows and exterior doors on separate zones, two keypads and a couple PIRs, oh and a panic button, oh and an internal sound bomb and extension speaker.

I've had the system for about 2 years and have been pleased with it, have also fitted similar systems for friends and family.

I should add I'm not in the trade, but am seriously into electronics and work in IT.

When we get the house I want to spend a good deal of money on a nice alarm system, and from looking around I've decided on the Texecom Premier 48 or perhaps 88.

What appeals most of all is the ability to have different areas, so I can have the garage and the house as separate areas which to me is preferable to having two alarms. I'm also going to go all out and use some output relays (via power relays of course) to activate internal and external lights mainly when we're out to make it appear like we're in.

I like the idea of the texecom software too, can install that on my server then access the alarm logs via the internet, and even reprogram if I so desire.

Oh and I just have to have at least one of those ali keypads!!

Anyway, of course because I'm self fitting my alarm won't be approved, but would like to adhere to BS and what ever other standards there are RE alarm fitting and the like.

So lots of questions really, and I'm sure more will come when I start the installation, but and this might sound like a strange question but SABs they scare me a bit as they effectively have a life of their own (for obvious reasons)

I'm looking to fit 3 bell boxes, one on the garage (reasonably low) and two on the house (really high up) my questions therefore are:

1) is it ok to use an SAB for the garage, and then just a normal sounder with tamper switch on the other two. I'll have other sounders in the house (one in most rooms, as I think this is quite an effective detterant)

2) has anyone here ever experienced an SAB that continues to sound even with power to the holdoff circuit? As I would hate to have an alarm sounding that wouldn't stop without me going up a ladder with a pair of snips!

3) considering that I will have a lot of sounders, is it acceptable to have an extra PSU for the bulk of them, and activate this via a relay from the main sounder output (as I suspect they'll draw more than the panel can supply)

4) You may be able to tell already, but I hate the idea of false/annoying the neighbours type alarms (I only want them to know I have an alarm when it really goes off (i.e burglars) oh and when I test it anyway, for this reason I've always preferred reeds on the doors and windows over PIRs and I tend to double up and put two reeds on each door and window in parallel. Is this ok? (I'll probably have a PIR or two covering the passageways) but would like to minimise their use as much as possible.

5) I mentioned above about parralleling reeds, or indeed any device, my current alarm has two PIRs facing each other in the hallway, they are parralleled so they only trigger the panel if they are both activated. On a sophisticated panel like the Premier, can I have all my reeds and pirs on separate zones and then somehow pair them so the alarm only triggers if both of the pair are activated.

Sorry for the long post,

Thanks in advance for any assistance, all the best.

-Dan

[Guest MKAlarms]

Hi Dan,

If you're worried about unwanted noise from your bells your best bet will be to use Odysseys. When connected to a Premier panel these have a hold off mode that is invoked when you enter engineer mode on the panel. This is a very quick and easy way to disable the sounder if you need to service the bells.

If you are running 3 bells, have the main one set as SAB (draws current from the panel) and the other two set as SCB (draws current from battery on bell). It's just a jumper link to swap between SAB and SCB.

Hope this helps.

MikeR

[bellman]

Hi Dan,

Welcome to the forums.

I'm sure you'll like it here, it's a lively place with people from many different areas if the industry contributing, from the smalest one man band to the Largest multi-nationals.

So, Lets see if we can help.

Firstly, let's summerise what you need from your system, and some possible solutions to them.

you need it to opperate with several different "areas" that can be set / unset.

There are several panels on the market that can do this, all set at different price points so your choice in panel on this feature depends on budget and availability, (there are some excellent bargins on Ebay). To name a few manufacturers to look at, try: Ademco-Microtech, Gardtec, Menvier, Scantronic and Texecom.

the alarm has to have the ability to control other devices via outputs and relays.

Again several panels do this, but the level of control over these outputs varies greatly, Ademco-Microtech Galaxy, Menvier networker series and Texecom premier are good examples of panels that have the flexibility you need.

I use the outputs on my home alarm to control all manner of things, from the mag locks on the garden sheds, cctv cameras, inside and outside lights to the central heating system (thanks pete).

you need a pc interface to the panel to allow remote interrogation and programming.

All the panels listed above do this.

the alarm has to comply with current standards.

You can get access to the BS standards at the local Library, but only the bigger town centre ones tend to have them.

as for your questions:

"1) is it ok to use an SAB for the garage, and then just a normal sounder with tamper switch on the other two. I'll have other sounders in the house (one in most rooms, as I think this is quite an effective detterant)"

Technically not a problem, but if it's low to allow You easy access it's low for BURGLARS to gain easy access I'd suggest Making the SAB the highest live box. If it was me, i'd make all the boxes SAB

"2) has anyone here ever experienced an SAB that continues to sound even with power to the holdoff circuit? As I would hate to have an alarm sounding that wouldn't stop without me going up a ladder with a pair of snips!"

Yup, usually caused by a rusty tamper switch or other corrosion. Good old British weather.

"3) considering that I will have a lot of sounders, is it acceptable to have an extra PSU for the bulk of them, and activate this via a relay from the main sounder output (as I suspect they'll draw more than the panel can supply)"

as you rightly suggested, this would have to be done via seperate power supplies so as not to overload the panel. I'll presume you know how to calculate loadings and the like.

"4) You may be able to tell already, but I hate the idea of false/annoying the neighbours type alarms (I only want them to know I have an alarm when it really goes off (i.e burglars) oh and when I test it biggrin.gif anyway, for this reason I've always preferred reeds on the doors and windows over PIRs and I tend to double up and put two reeds on each door and window in parallel. Is this ok? (I'll probably have a PIR or two covering the passageways) but would like to minimise their use as much as possible."

Several high security jobs have dual reeds, although the configuration does differ for various reasons. they are usually used to defeat tampering rather than any additional integrity though. and since modern panels monitor the resistance on the cct it is a futile exercise to fit 2 of them.

as for 2 pir's, why not fit a good quality dual tech, either pir/microwave or pir/ultrasonic? simpler and better solution all round.

"5) I mentioned above about parralleling reeds, or indeed any device, my current alarm has two PIRs facing each other in the hallway, they are parralleled so they only trigger the panel if they are both activated. On a sophisticated panel like the Premier, can I have all my reeds and pirs on separate zones and then somehow pair them so the alarm only triggers if both of the pair are activated."

The function you are describing sounds similar to "beam pair" usually used on ir beams i'm not sure if the premier does this, the Ademco-Microtech galaxy does though

Hope this helps

Regards

Bellman

[Guest toasty]

Thanks for the quick responses guys.

Beam pair eh? sounds interesting, I have the manual here in front of me, so I'll look through the index for that. Thanks alot BellMan

Dualtecs sound good too, so I'll go for them rather than doubling up PIRs.

Would you guys recommend mounting the alarm control box in the loft? I was thinking that would probably be the most inaccesible part of the house, and thus the hardest for the burglars to get to..

Also would you recommend mounting the 8zone expanders near the alarm control box? Or should I just save cable and place them in such a way that they are near the detectors?

Also (last question for a while I promise!) would you say the standard 4 wire method (2 tamper, 2 contact) or the 2 wires with resistor option is better?

If so, can you get two core cable (presumably very small stuff) for discretely wiring this sort of system?

and thanks again to Bellman and MKAlarms for the prompt responses.

If anyone needs assistance with anything IT related (particularly networking, unix or web) give me a shout (that's what I'm good at)

Cheer!

[Guest toasty]

Thanks for the advice Rich.

Interesting point about reeds being unreliable, I'd always thought of them as having very little to go wrong, only problem I ever had was the wiring going green and corroded where water got in, but was hoping to seal the new ones with some silicon sealer (bathroom type stuff)

I must admit PIRs still make me nervous, but if you guys are happy with them then I'll go with it.

Looked in my (106 page!) install manual for the Texe prem 48 and it does support beam pairs, so I should be ok if I want to pair up my reeds and run it that way.

Good advice about the SAB/SCBs, anyone give me a rough idea how long the Nicads/NiMH batts in these last in terms of years?

Nice idea about sticking any spare cores in to the ground terminal at the control box, I guess it acts a bit like a screened cable then?..

Great forum!

-Dan

[breff]

Have you thought of connecting two bells into the panel(1 set to scb), putting an expander and psu in the garage, and using expander outputs for the garage bell.

If u do this you can

1) connect garage internal sounder into garage expander

2) connect garage bell tamper into dedicated input on expander

3) connect the garage keypad into the network out on the expander

4) wire your garage zones into it.

Also by using a psu with it the garage bell can be left on SAB,which always sounds louder to me.

Also the garage sounder and bell can be programmed to go only with the garage or both house and garage,and likewise for the house.

If you do install a 48 dont be frightened to ask for help with the programming, there are quite a few of us on here who have fitted hundreds.

PS Great Panel.

[Guest toasty]

Thanks for the advice breff.

Like your idea RE: the expander in the garage plus a psu, I'll go for that

[mikeald]

fit a galaxy 60!

[Guest]

fit a galaxy 60!

22618[/snapback]

There's always one!

[Guest]

i like my galaxy 500 with smart psu in the garage.. id go for that toasty..