Recommendation On System And Route

[bornstubborn]

Hi, 

 

I would like some advice on the best route to take with regard to selecting and installing a security system.

 

I am in the middle of a self build project right now and am building a large family home (about  8000 sqft). To keep costs down we are doing as much as we can on the project ourselves (from foundations to dry-lining). Right now, the timber kit is up and we're about to start first fix. I work in IT (networking and security) and have an electronics/engineering background, while my father-in-law who is project managing for us is a qualified electrician.

 

I intend to deploy  a server based CCTV system myself - probably Milestone with Axis or Acti cameras (as I've deployed a few internally at work), but would like advice on what route to take with regard to the alarm system. I've done a bit of research and read quite a lot in these forums, and it looks like the Honeywell Galaxy kit could be a good fit. I first came across it on the website of a home automation company who mentioned that they integrated it with Crestron. I do intend to go down the home automation route, but again, I'm not decided on route / manufacturer. 

 

Looking around the web it looks like I could get all the components for a galaxy system with lots of detectors for a decent price, and as nothing is sheeted yet, running the cables should be straightforward. 

 

Given the size of the house (it's in quite a prominent location) I intended to go for a monitored alarm (not that we'll be able to afford to have anything worth stealing in the house as all the money is going to build it    ), but some posts I noticed on here didn't seem to be exactly singing the praises of ARCs?

 

Anyway, just looking for advice in general, but with some specific questions: 

- would a self install be a good idea, given my background and combined capabilities, or would we be better to get a professional in? Cost is an issue, but equally, I spend so much time at work fixing technology that at home I just want something that works!

- will firms "adopt" self installed systems if they are installed ok with decent kit? 

- Are any of the big firms (ADT being the most obvious) any good, or should I steer clear and find a local company?

- probably a dumb question - alarm cable - can I use Cat 5 (as I've got loads for flood wiring the house anyway), or should it be specific alarm cable?

- smoke screen systems - worthwhile in domestic settings?

- home automation - any recommendations for alarms that offer better integration options, or any to avoid?

 

Oh, one other thing - building control have told us because of the size, we need a LD2 Category B fire alarm system - this is one area I definately won't be compromising on, so we'll get someone in to commision and maintain this. We'll run the pyro cable, but that's about it. Are their such things as combined fire and intruder alarms that could meet this requirement? 

 

Sorry for so many questions!

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[arfur mo]

TBH. Your best inviting tenders from diffetent firms, listen to what each day and don't show what one has said to any other so you get a level playing field to judge ability to some extent.

You state your running pyro, but Firetuff or FP200 is more popular today - and cheaper, but i 'll flogg you my mineral tools off cheap if you like .

[Ronnie]

Hi, 

 

I would like some advice on the best route to take with regard to selecting and installing a security system.

 

I am in the middle of a self build project right now and am building a large family home (about  8000 sqft). To keep costs down we are doing as much as we can on the project ourselves (from foundations to dry-lining). Right now, the timber kit is up and we're about to start first fix. I work in IT (networking and security) and have an electronics/engineering background, while my father-in-law who is project managing for us is a qualified electrician.

 

I intend to deploy  a server based CCTV system myself - probably Milestone with Axis or Acti cameras (as I've deployed a few internally at work), but would like advice on what route to take with regard to the alarm system. I've done a bit of research and read quite a lot in these forums, and it looks like the Honeywell Galaxy kit could be a good fit. I first came across it on the website of a home automation company who mentioned that they integrated it with Crestron. I do intend to go down the home automation route, but again, I'm not decided on route / manufacturer. 

 

Looking around the web it looks like I could get all the components for a galaxy system with lots of detectors for a decent price, and as nothing is sheeted yet, running the cables should be straightforward. 

 

Given the size of the house (it's in quite a prominent location) I intended to go for a monitored alarm (not that we'll be able to afford to have anything worth stealing in the house as all the money is going to build it    ), but some posts I noticed on here didn't seem to be exactly singing the praises of ARCs?

 

Anyway, just looking for advice in general, but with some specific questions: 

- would a self install be a good idea, given my background and combined capabilities, or would we be better to get a professional in? Cost is an issue, but equally, I spend so much time at work fixing technology that at home I just want something that works!

- will firms "adopt" self installed systems if they are installed ok with decent kit? 

- Are any of the big firms (ADT being the most obvious) any good, or should I steer clear and find a local company?

- probably a dumb question - alarm cable - can I use Cat 5 (as I've got loads for flood wiring the house anyway), or should it be specific alarm cable?

- smoke screen systems - worthwhile in domestic settings?

- home automation - any recommendations for alarms that offer better integration options, or any to avoid?

 

Oh, one other thing - building control have told us because of the size, we need a LD2 Category B fire alarm system - this is one area I definately won't be compromising on, so we'll get someone in to commision and maintain this. We'll run the pyro cable, but that's about it. Are their such things as combined fire and intruder alarms that could meet this requirement? 

 

Sorry for so many questions!

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

My advice would be to talk to a few smaller local firms and see how "tech geek" they are.  We're doing a similar job at the moment and the sort of person I suspect you are will always want to be more involved than we would normally like. That's not a bad thing but you need the right company doing the work.  Steer clear of any medium/large company or national, stick with smaller firms.

[cybergibbons]

Impartial advice (as I am not an installer, I break alarms instead) - I'd find a local alarm company to come and give you advice. I suspect a lot of them would be fine with you running the cable, but they'd like a say on where it goes.

 

I've come to realise that detector selection and placement is actually not easy, and experience is what helps here. You'll likely end up with less detectors and a better covered house if a professional does it.

As for home automation, I hear Galaxy integrates better than most, but I don't think there is a single system that is really good in that respect.

 

ARCs are a vital part of proper monitoring. 

Personally I'd avoid a smokescreen in a house. There's a demo video somewhere of one in a house and they just don't work as well as in warehouses and big open spaces. I'd spend the same money on a decent safe.

[datadiffusion]

Smokescreen - if you have kids or grandparents, or the neighbour-as-keyholder etc... the first time they set it off 'by mistake' you'll not bother

recharging it!

 

You should use alarm cable for alarms not Cat5, it will cost pennies to do it right, solid TP is an absolute nightmare wiring alarm kit with and

I cringe whenever I see it. Very prone to silly faults i.e. hidden broken strands just before the terminals etc... Don't buy cable from the likes

of CPC if get it yourself, do, proper copper cable is what you need, avoid the copper coated aluminium (CCA) rubbish.

 

Despite my comments on another section, in your case I suspect most installers would be happy for you to lay cables to their exact spec, being

you're at the timber stage so hopefully won't be snagging/burning cables though tiny holes etc... As long as its proper alarm cable.

 

There is nothing wrong with a lot of big firms, but nations probably not best for a project like this. Go local, and please don't buy on price alone.

You will probably get a wide range of quotes. Go with the one you feel most comfortable with, not the cheapest. And find out what kit you're getting.

The Siemens SPC for example is a great panel for HA but if you're looking for a fully blown solution then forget it being budget and being able to

call up any old installer. 

 

And as CG says, 50% of an install isn't wiring up the kit, its knowing what to put and where; tips and tricks that only come with experience, etc...

which is why so many otherwise capable DIY attempts are either useless at actually detecting a typical intrusion or don't actually provide good protection

at all.

 

Hope this helps!

[matthew.brough]

My advice would be to talk to a few smaller local firms and see how "tech geek" they are. We're doing a similar job at the moment and the sort of person I suspect you are will always want to be more involved than we would normally like. That's not a bad thing but you need the right company doing the work. Steer clear of any medium/large company or national, stick with smaller firms.

Agreed. We have some very tech savvy customers which works for us but this defiantly wouldn't be a nationals cup of tea.

[sixwheeledbeast]

would a self install be a good idea, given my background and combined capabilities, or would we be better to get a professional in? Cost is an issue, but equally, I spend so much time at work fixing technology that at home I just want something that works!

On this note I was given a job for a customer of ours to "fix" his new self installed home alarm system, very similar circumstances to yourself.

Sensors where wired incorrectly and it was all IMO cheap gear would have overloaded the panel.

In the end we used the wires and started again, with our kit, finished in a day Premier 48 & PSU200XP.

It's the only electronic job that finished in his house, this was three years ago, he just hasn't got time to do everything himself. AV, HA, CCTV, Outside lighting system all waiting to be second fixed.

 

- will firms "adopt" self installed systems if they are installed ok with decent kit?

Some will some won't, I agree with the others on local firms.

 

- Are any of the big firms (ADT being the most obvious) any good, or should I steer clear and find a local company?

See Above

 

- probably a dumb question - alarm cable - can I use Cat 5 (as I've got loads for flood wiring the house anyway), or should it be specific alarm cable?

Yes. Only use alarm cable. Eight core preferably. Solid cored cable is prone to breaking and causing intermittent issues.

 

- smoke screen systems - worthwhile in domestic settings?

No. We used to have a couple on maintenance, PITA. Bear in mind it leaves a residue on all your surfaces.

 

- home automation - any recommendations for alarms that offer better integration options, or any to avoid?

Texecom Premier Elite is our standard kit, very flexible panel and can be integrated to Crestron, I believe.

Also has the option of expanding with mesh wireless detection in the future with addition kit.

What do you actually what to integrate between the HA and alarm?

[Scotmod]

You're using the cream of the crop and most expensive cable for your fire alarm when FP200 will do.

 

Most firms will be happy to second fix if they get a maintenance contract out of it. State you are willing to take out maintenance and ask them to send round a surveyor that will identify what points you need to cable to.

 

You'll get more help from a firm if you inform the surveyor of the situation and tell them they'll get two maintenance contracts and maybe some monitoring out of it.

[MrHappy]

I view large self builds as an unpaid consultancy project with little chance of an order ?

Send me the plans & I'll only advise & design for a fee, (unless your an existing client)

[bornstubborn]

Thanks for all the responses, some good advice there! 

 

On the cable front, I thought that would be the case (i.e. not using cat 5), will definitely go for proper alarm cable. 

 

The consensus seems to be to find someone I can work with so I can run the cables and let them do the rest - sounds like a good compromise. On that note, can anyone recommend installers (or maybe you are installers) in North Lanarkshire? As per the advice, happy to take maintenance and monitoring as part of the project.

The other concern / issue (forgot to mention in original email!) is that I'd like to get the property alarmed now while we're still working on it.. Doors and Windows won't arrive until late Jan, but want to get the site secured as much as we can in the meantime so we can actually get on with works inside. We live within 30M of the site. Would it be feasible to install the bones of a system, temporarily mount the sensors and leave slack so the sensors can be moved to finished plasterboard lining at a later date? Or, should I put in a cheap (yale / screwfix type kit), temp install it myself and then get a proper system at a later date? 

 

Thanks!