jonathan.strutt Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Hi there, I'm hoping to collect some advice and opinions for a new alarm installation. I'm building a new house - 5 bedrooms, two floors and attached garage. I've hard-wired the house ready for alarm (using Cat5e for simplicity alongside data network). My intention is to have 8 PIR's and 5 door switches covering various zones (to provide full alarm and perimeter protection while at home). Most importantly, I want to put a touch screen in the hall that will allow control of z wave devices for home automation. I'd also like the alarm system to have internet capability so that email alerts can be raised. I'm not bothered about telephone modules, txt commands and so-on. There are a few system's I've come across - the two lead manufacturers seem to be Honeywell (Ademco) or DSC. I started looking at the Honeywell Vista mated with the Tuxedo panel but I've seen to mixed feedback on here - most notably, saying this kit isn't really in use in the UK any more. Equally, the Galaxy kit looks like something from the 1980's. The DSC seems like a good option but I also need to vet connectivity options (i.e. I don't want to buy a system that only runs on AC and is going to be a total ball-ache to install due to power supply). I'm pretty adept with electronics (IT, networking, low voltage and so-on). And a lot of installers I've spoken to either say they don't do touchscreen or try to get me to buy their mates £20k home automation set up. So I'm looking at doing the installation myself. Appreciate any advice or feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Cat5 is probably the worst cable you can use for a conventional alarm system... Other than that, with any DIY system you won't be able to get proper monitoring, which means no matter how fancy the setup is, it won't be able to perform its duties as a security system to the max, which, it sounds like is an issue for you if you are considering full protection whilst you're still in the house. Do you really want a fixed touchscreen or would an app on a smartphone or tablet be just as good? If so the Siemens or Texecom could be for you, both are IP ready and support HA. However, when all is said and done you could easily be knocking on that £20k if you really want the whole house to be all singing all dancing. The reason no conventional installer has offered you touchscreen is probably half don't understand it and the other half know there is little on the market that fits the bill, intruder wise, and I for one wouldn't want any installation to be comprised of an untested, unfamiliar product. So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan.strutt Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 Thanks for your reply datadiffusion. Some provoking thoughts there - In all honesty, there's no real reason for the touch screen in the hallway save for the ability to control static z wave add-ons (electric garage and so-on). But this could just as easily be done through an app on a tablet or phone (hell, you could even wall mount a tablet with an app and it might be cheaper than the £300 for a DSC Touch Screen). To be honest, we're not looking for a monitoring solution (not third-party anyway) but I am installing PoW IP camera's which will record movement onto NAS and allow viewing and review securely over network. So basically, if the alarm is triggered, I want to be able to receive an alert and tap into the cameras to authenticate the alert and, if needs be, contact the authorities. Sounds like the Siemens or Texecom options are worth an investigate. Just out of interest, why is Cat5e so bad for alarm set ups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Are you in the UK ? Its just that there is only one DSC distributor in the UK and no UK technical support. British gas went down the DSC route for a while but I dont think they are doing alarms anymore. Honeywell is big but not necessarily the best, its a bit like saying MacDonalds is the best restaurant in the world,. There's a reason for different types of cables for things the alarm will work using cat5 for the same reasons you could use cat 5 for your hifi speakers, power light your xmas tree lights, it doesnt make it the right stuff to use though. You should use Alarm cable for alarms Cat 5 for your network and mains cable for your fairy lights. And speaker cable for your Hi Fi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan.strutt Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 Yep, I'm in the UK. And yes, I've found getting both DSC and Honeywell kit in certain forms in the UK troublesome. I'm keen to understand any other options for the setup described or alternative setup considerations (such as the one put forward by datadiffusion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 To be honest, we're not looking for a monitoring solution (not third-party anyway) but I am installing PoW IP camera's which will record movement onto NAS and allow viewing and review securely over network. So basically, if the alarm is triggered, I want to be able to receive an alert and tap into the cameras to authenticate the alert and, if needs be, contact the authorities. So, the thief smashes into the house, guesses where the panel is, and rips it from the wall. The siren goes off outside, but hes used to that and everyone ignores it anyway. a) By using a GSM or Phone dialler, it takes up to 60 seconds to dial out. Oh dear, the message never got through - try again or b) As it happens the GSM unit or dialler hasn't worked since you last played with that patch cable back in July. Because it doesn't test itself, even though you promised yourself you'd test it manually (but got too busy with the rest of the house), nothing happens anyway... No point having cameras if you don't get told to look at them. Also, if your phone line is cut assuming its game over for the broadband? So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan.strutt Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 Oh dear. it feels as though the usefulness of this forum may have capped out at only 5 posts - that it, the solution is now being deconstructed as useless with no suggestion for improvement or observation of the original messages. As I'd originally said, I don't want to use telephony modules. And the panel will not be somewhere where it can be easily reached by an intruder. The IP camera's are also on a separate network with separate infrastructure (save for internet connection). Now if you'd said my broadband supplier might be utterly useless and there's no connection to the internet for the alarm to be raised, I'd have given you that one. But the alarm will still sound and we live in a tight neighborhood. I could pay £"chris-known-how-much" for a monitoring solution to hassle me monthly to upgrade to the next contract or take their partner services to they can charge me a false alarm fee every time my dog breaks wind, but have failed to be persuaded of their value so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I could pay £"chris-known-how-much" for a monitoring solution to hassle me monthly to upgrade to the next contract or take their partner services to they can charge me a false alarm fee every time my dog breaks wind, but have failed to be persuaded of their value so far. There are certain ARC's that sell 'proper monitoring' at very reasonable rates and all the benefits it offers. The cost for alarm resets refers to an approved alarm looked after by an approved company. That doesn't stop you buying monitoring as a stand alone product without those limitations. www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 And there are various reasons not to use cat 5, its solid cores can break but still be making a circuit, when its sending data its not so much a problem but when it needs to be making a circuit it is. It is also much thinner than alarm cable therefore higher resistance, and resistance is what the circuits are looking at at the control panels, this also makes a difference to what voltage is supplied at the detector,. Cat 5 is twisted pair, it is twisted to lose interference/noise/ mains inducement on networks and data using alternating circuits, the opposite effect on alarm systems as they are direct circuits. Texe is good as is the Scantronic ION both have apps Scanny uses a web based ap so you could use a Driod tab as your touch screen, you could also use the same tab to view your CCTV ect. Im with Datafusion on the monitoring though, there is little point to non monitored monitoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Find a smaller local firm who are tech geek enough to show an interest.. What you want is not available in the UK so you will have to "bodge" something together. You probably won't get your answers in here either I'm afraid. Good luck though, sounds like an interesting project and similar to a project we're working on right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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