Is UL listed important to you?

[norman]

 

In answer to PJ I think the only reason there is cheap (often dangerous) tat for sale is there is a market for it, we are all guilty of driving prices down but are first to moan at the quality. 

[Arron]

44 minutes ago, norman said:

 

In answer to PJ I think the only reason there is cheap (often dangerous) tat for sale is there is a market for it, we are all guilty of driving prices down but are first to moan at the quality. 

To make successful and lasting business, I think we should change our view.

 

Low-price is tempting for sure, and it's the most direct reason to get the order. But actually it's a bad strategy for long term running. Like smartphone market, in the past years, there are so many company can make a acceptable phone within 100 USD, they all compete with price. But now, where are they? Almost all are closed... But many company insist on quality are growing big, just like Huawei and OPPO, their price isn't lower than Samsung or LG. To make a good product means good engineer and good service, all these will spend money. At the beginning, some people buy cheap phone, but cheap phone isn't a pleasing product after all, if they have enough budget, they turn to big brands eventually, as long as it's within budget. Those keep lowing the price can only reduce the quality and service, to serve the people financially poor, struggle to earn the small money. So the conclusion is focusing on quality can grow big, while focusing on price will perish someday.

 

To run a healthy business, quality is the first, especially in developed country. Your budget is enough for good product, right?

[ElecTech]

Your right, but the world needs the low end **** kit markets to some degree. If everyone installed "quality" kit that was all to the same standard and everything was rounded and perfect.

 

What would distinguish the good from the bad? Nothing. I for one am glad in some ways there are mickey mouse kits out there. It separates the kind of installer that you are & level of service/products you can provide.

[petrolhead]

On 9 May 2016 at 7:11 AM, Arron said:

Do you work in access control? Please list some cases caused by Chinese product. I want to learn about it. Thanks

Many chinese power supplies, if the neutral becomes disconnected but the live remains, such as in the case of a severed cable or supply grid fault, the output side of the supply can rise to supply potential, giving 240v where only 12v is supposed to go. Fire and electrocution is a very real possibility, especially since so many chinese products come with no fuse protection and undersized wiring.

about 2 thirds of the ones we investigated had underrated components, inadequate primary-secondary isolation, single component failures can cause either supply potential at output terminals or the device to catch fire. The plastic housings are of poor construction, a small knock can smash them leaving bare live unfused connections. Thousands of other examples but i don't have all day to list them. There is no regulation to stop these parasitic companies putting out dangerous equipment with falsified specs, in the uk, at least there traditionally has been a guaranteed minimum standard of quality and safety so people who buy on price alone still get a reasonably safe product that does roughly what it says on the box(except maybe british cars, maybe communist manufacture is the common denominator in **** quality?), dealing with chinese companies, there are no such safeguards, anything goes and there are a lot of scum getting away with outright theft. Until something is done about that side of things even good chinese products will be disregarded as chinktat unfortunately.

Edited May 10, 2016 by petrolhead

[PeterJames]

China is already cheaper because the labour is cheaper than in the UK. I dont think it is the buyers so much I think its because there are so many Chinese companies competing for the same work this is what drives the price down. I used to get emails daily from China with cameras for $5 -$10 etc. So to the inexperienced person would think the average price of a basic camera in China is $7.50. Many distributors here sell a camera that looks exactly the same at £40.00. Its not until you buy some sample from China you discover they are far from the same.

Many sellers offer stuff at cheap prices because they are trying to get your attention, what they dont understand is getting your attention is not the end game, if you want to be successful you need to have a constant flow to regular customers. Producing a quality product at a reasonable price (Still cheaper than you can buy in the UK) is the way to make it, this way you keep your customer happy. 

I have a great relationship with my CCTV supplier and my fob supplier, they know that I want quality and I dont mind paying more for it. For example because I am based close to the sea cameras I have purchased from UK distributors have corroded very quickly. But the cameras I buy direct do not, because I pay extra to have all my cameras Ausbonded, I dont mind paying more because the camera still looks good two or three years after its been installed, and because the internals are Ausbonded it will probably not fail quite as soon as the cameras that are not. 

China is not the only country that produces rubbish, but it is probably the worst for it, I visited some factories still producing rubbish while I was there asked why, the answer was because we are selling it, when I asked who to it was eastern Europe countries like Poland Ukraine   

[Arron]

5 hours ago, PeterJames said:

China is already cheaper because the labour is cheaper than in the UK. I dont think it is the buyers so much I think its because there are so many Chinese companies competing for the same work this is what drives the price down. I used to get emails daily from China with cameras for $5 -$10 etc. So to the inexperienced person would think the average price of a basic camera in China is $7.50. Many distributors here sell a camera that looks exactly the same at £40.00. Its not until you buy some sample from China you discover they are far from the same.

Many sellers offer stuff at cheap prices because they are trying to get your attention, what they dont understand is getting your attention is not the end game, if you want to be successful you need to have a constant flow to regular customers. Producing a quality product at a reasonable price (Still cheaper than you can buy in the UK) is the way to make it, this way you keep your customer happy. 

I have a great relationship with my CCTV supplier and my fob supplier, they know that I want quality and I dont mind paying more for it. For example because I am based close to the sea cameras I have purchased from UK distributors have corroded very quickly. But the cameras I buy direct do not, because I pay extra to have all my cameras Ausbonded, I dont mind paying more because the camera still looks good two or three years after its been installed, and because the internals are Ausbonded it will probably not fail quite as soon as the cameras that are not. 

China is not the only country that produces rubbish, but it is probably the worst for it, I visited some factories still producing rubbish while I was there asked why, the answer was because we are selling it, when I asked who to it was eastern Europe countries like Poland Ukraine   

 

You are right. Many Chinese company only produce product of Chinese standard which may be not enough for UK standard. Because the competitors in China are all at that level. If you tell us what's your problem and what features you expect, we could offer the product you like. But so sad most buyers only ask for price.

[Arron]

5 hours ago, petrolhead said:

Many chinese power supplies, if the neutral becomes disconnected but the live remains, such as in the case of a severed cable or supply grid fault, the output side of the supply can rise to supply potential, giving 240v where only 12v is supposed to go. Fire and electrocution is a very real possibility, especially since so many chinese products come with no fuse protection and undersized wiring.

about 2 thirds of the ones we investigated had underrated components, inadequate primary-secondary isolation, single component failures can cause either supply potential at output terminals or the device to catch fire. The plastic housings are of poor construction, a small knock can smash them leaving bare live unfused connections. Thousands of other examples but i don't have all day to list them. There is no regulation to stop these parasitic companies putting out dangerous equipment with falsified specs, in the uk, at least there traditionally has been a guaranteed minimum standard of quality and safety so people who buy on price alone still get a reasonably safe product that does roughly what it says on the box(except maybe british cars, maybe communist manufacture is the common denominator in **** quality?), dealing with chinese companies, there are no such safeguards, anything goes and there are a lot of scum getting away with outright theft. Until something is done about that side of things even good chinese products will be disregarded as chinktat unfortunately.

 

Low quality product will exist for long in China, because most Chinese don't have enough budget like Europe countries. Sometimes your standard is not the same as China, and we don't know it, so when we don't know your standard, we just give you Chinese standard product.

 

And because of the corruption in quality audit, the falsified specs will exist too. But if you know the industry well, you could tell if the specs is falsified. When I worked in CCTV and LCD, I can easily find the conflict in specs. Most sales even don't have common sense in engineering.

 

 

5 hours ago, ElecTech said:

Your right, but the world needs the low end **** kit markets to some degree. If everyone installed "quality" kit that was all to the same standard and everything was rounded and perfect.

 

What would distinguish the good from the bad? Nothing. I for one am glad in some ways there are mickey mouse kits out there. It separates the kind of installer that you are & level of service/products you can provide.

 

Agree