Info on Viper circuit false alarm.

[vykingman]

The vipers are

3 hours ago, al-yeti said:

So full set no problem?

And vipers are not active on full set?

The system does FA on full set - its the same viper zone that is activated - but no viper LED flashing?

[vykingman]

1 hour ago, PeterJames said:

There are several things that could be causing your problem as follows:

 

1. Auxiliary power failing. Loose fuse or poor connection at the panel down powering the vipers will cause the circuit to go open giving the impression that they had activated. This is why its important to know If the pir were to activate along with the vipers when the system is fully set as this would indicate that it is a power problem.

 

2. The cables to the vipers may have a fault on them, the fact that you have nt had a tamper fault would suggest that the 24hr loop is okay, if you swap the pair both ends and you start to get tamper faults then you know its the cable. Although it could also be an  intermittent short between the tamper and alarm circuit. So if the false alarms continue it still maybe a short between alarm and tamper, To prove this I would remove the wires from the tamper circuit and fit a link, if the fa's stop its a short problem.

 

3. The panel itself. It could be just the zone or it could be dropping power

 

4. The vipers. As there is two of them it is very unlikely, but not impossible.

 

My money is on 1 or 2 the detectors seem to work as they should when tested and the panel operates correctly, but an intermittant fault can be difficult to find  especially without a multimeter. 

 

 

 

Many thanks for your input on this. I will work through your suggestions and see what I come up with. Not to sure how to test your first suggestion as the viper zone is the only one that is indicated on the control panel.

[PeterJames]

1 minute ago, vykingman said:

The vipers are

The system does FA on full set - its the same viper zone that is activated - but no viper LED flashing?

That narrows it down a bit use the 24hr tamper wires as the circuit and link out the tamper circuit at the panel. If it stops you either have an intermittent short between tamper and alarm or an intermittent open circuit .

[vykingman]

2 hours ago, MrHappy said:

Normally a competent alarm engineer would  measure the circuits,

 

low Ohms between each pair of cables, high Ohms between cables which ain't paired.

 

With the system running on battery power only, measure the voltage at each device to ensure it high enough.

 

Full set the system & check the device operates as intended,

 

If all fine I would swap the circuits with another zone & place the viper circuit on soak test.

 

You can do all this yourself or just find a competent alarm co. to look after your system.....

 

Thank you for your input on this problem. I can check your suggestions and see what I come up with.

[PeterJames]

2 minutes ago, vykingman said:

Many thanks for your input on this. I will work through your suggestions and see what I come up with. Not to sure how to test your first suggestion as the viper zone is the only one that is indicated on the control panel.

If the pir is not activating when full set logically it is unlikely to be power at the panel. It may still be an intermittent power fault on the viper cable 

[vykingman]

2 minutes ago, PeterJames said:

That narrows it down a bit use the 24hr tamper wires as the circuit and link out the tamper circuit at the panel. If it stops you either have an intermittent short between tamper and alarm or an intermittent open circuit .

Thank you I understand what you are saying. I'll check it first thing tomorrow.

[vykingman]

16 hours ago, PeterJames said:

There are several things that could be causing your problem as follows:

 

1. Auxiliary power failing. Loose fuse or poor connection at the panel down powering the vipers will cause the circuit to go open giving the impression that they had activated. This is why its important to know If the pir were to activate along with the vipers when the system is fully set as this would indicate that it is a power problem.

 

2. The cables to the vipers may have a fault on them, the fact that you have nt had a tamper fault would suggest that the 24hr loop is okay, if you swap the pair both ends and you start to get tamper faults then you know its the cable. Although it could also be an  intermittent short between the tamper and alarm circuit. So if the false alarms continue it still maybe a short between alarm and tamper, To prove this I would remove the wires from the tamper circuit and fit a link, if the fa's stop its a short problem.

 

3. The panel itself. It could be just the zone or it could be dropping power

 

4. The vipers. As there is two of them it is very unlikely, but not impossible.

 

My money is on 1 or 2 the detectors seem to work as they should when tested and the panel operates correctly, but an intermittant fault can be difficult to find  especially without a multimeter. 

 

 

 

Top man Peter James - I started to work through your suggestions and as I did so I also did a visual inspection of the connections in  the control panel. As I touched the zone 7 (false alarming) the yellow cable which is the alarm cable fell out of the connector. I noticed more than 50% of the multi core wire had broken away. I double checked the rest - all were OK. I'm going to soak test over the next few days.

I had only checked the internal battery which was fine.

I appreciate that this may not be the problem but its a good starting point.

 

I have one more question. Is it possible to programme the FA zone out of the system? Or do I need to disconnect the zone in the CP. I am going away for month of February and If the problem persists I would like to set at least part of the alarm.

I must thank you once again for your time and input on this it is very much appreciated. Whilst I'm happy around handling electronics and looking at the physical side of things, the old brain slows down a bit after time.

Back in the late 60's I worked on fighter aircraft radio systems and their wiring.

Lets hope the problem is fixed.

[datadiffusion]

If you have the engineer code then yes it's easy to program out the troublesome zone; but unfortunately we can't give out engineer manuals here.

If you struggle to find one elsewhere (you won't) then linking it out with a wire would work.

 

However, as you say whilst it's highly likely the loose wire was the cause, it's not a definite just yet.

 

If you can get Engineer access, what would be better would be putting the zone on 'soak' test whilst away.

If it triggers, you won't get an alarm, but it will let you know when you unset. In that way a week or sos holiday

would be an ideal time to soak test.

Edited January 6, 2017 by datadiffusion

[al-yeti]

Worst case you could loop the zones in the panel temporarily as you have a Pir covering the area until you get back

[MrHappy]

8 hours ago, vykingman said:

I noticed more than 50% of the multi core wire had broken away.

 

A competent alarm monkey may have found this this by comparing the commissioning readings against whats measured

 

8 hours ago, vykingman said:

Back in the late 60's I worked on fighter aircraft radio systems and their wiring.

 

It may be a rumour but ACT Meters claimed they demo'd their "check mate radio meter" to the RAF & used it on an Aircraft which found a number of circuit faults which the RAF tech people assumed was a fault with the check mate but was later confirmed to be an issue with the aircraft

 

8 hours ago, vykingman said:

I am going away for month of February and If the problem persists I would like to set at least part of the alarm.

 

Tried post this on an Iphone yesterday but safari/TSI  doesn't work for me ? My Sub called yesterday am after an FA at 05:30, they have fully comp maintenance so the issue was resolved with £28.00+vat of parts fitted by noon & there away in Australia until February

Edited January 6, 2017 by PeterJames
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