Panel Schematic?

[Gabs]

2 hours ago, MrHappy said:

I'd thought a keen young mind would be able to copy an old logic 4 or similar ?

I actually have just got a Logic 4, it looks really quite complex, I could give it a go, but I am not sure if it would work. 

 

2 hours ago, datadiffusion said:

Presumably still uses custom IC's though?

 

Pretty sure even the CPA2 panel had a custom IC in it (possibly just for speaker sounds / tones though).

 

As for my 6 zone electronics kit (actually might have been 5), google is your friend (I forget the make), though you'll have to wade through all the basic 1 zone ones

 

Here are the 4 ICs in the Logic 4, not sure if any are custom made for ADE, would anyone else know? If not, there is a chance I will try to make/copy the board traces for the Logic 4

2 hours ago, Nova-Security said:

before you start with PICs you need to look at the basics.

 

http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/ronj/mba.html

 

I'll have a look at that, thanks  

[sixwheeledbeast]

RonJ has some good schematics on his site I have used some of them before.

From what you say in your posts you seem interested in the electronics but never build much before?

 If this is the case take a look at Ron's smaller and simpler transistor circuits first, before you build up to the modular one posted.

 

The IC's are all pretty standard CMOS 4xxx Series, cheap and easy to pick up. I wouldn't start reverse engineering a Logic 4 as your first project tho.

 

[GalaxyGuy]

No, just 4000 series chips. Pretty old technology and similar to the circuits posted earlier, but will give you a better understanding of the electronics if you can build and debug the circuit.

 

The microprocessor based stuff these days works by multiplexed analog to digital conversion. The zones are analog potential dividers, with the resulting voltage (from the zone) being converted to digital and read by the CPU.

[GalaxyGuy]

Agree with SWB. Learn basic electronics. Transistors, gates, flip flops, RC timers, Etc. There used to be project kits with many circuit possibilities years ago - they were basic, but very good. The Tandy 200 in 1 was my dream x-mas present when I was 9 y/o.  I don't think I ever played with any toy more than that.

 

After that, skip the alarm circuit and jump to Raspberry Pi I/O.  You'll find it easier to learn/modify programming rather than the example alarm circuits, but you still need the grounding (no pun intended) in basic electronics.

[sixwheeledbeast]

3 minutes ago, GalaxyGuy said:

Agree with SWB. Learn basic electronics. Transistors, gates, flip flops, RC timers, Etc.

After that, skip the alarm circuit and jump to Raspberry Pi I/O.  You'll find it easier to learn/modify programming rather than the example alarm circuits, but you still need the grounding (no pun intended) in basic electronics.

 

Exactly, just like I said in my first post. It's good to have knowledge of the basics, so start small but also consider tech moves on.

Back when Logic 4's where designed a office desktop computer had less power than a SBC's you can buy now. A RPi3 is about £30, wouldn't like to guess what a P5 Pentium system or the like would have cost.

The other benefit is if you get bored of the project you can easily repurpose the SBC for the next project.

 

If you are really interested in making up some circuits maybe try some basic timer circuits to start, 555 timers are normally good to cut your teeth on.

They are very easy to build a working project and if wired in the different modes, give good understanding of RC networks, transistors and logic level.

This is assuming you are starting from minimal electronics knowledge of course.

[datadiffusion]

1 hour ago, Gabs said:

Here are the 4 ICs in the Logic 4, not sure if any are custom made for ADE, would anyone else know? If not, there is a chance I will try to make/copy the board traces for the Logic 4

 

Interesting,  simpler in number and function than I'd ever imagined.

 

When I started in this lark you could still buy the Logic 4, but the multizone LCD path was one the Co I worked took from the outset, thankfully.

 

Otherwise as above basics then look up a few circuits to build yourself. You'll probably find one of those 200-in1 electronics type kits on eBay for pennies.

[Gabs]

1 hour ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

RonJ has some good schematics on his site I have used some of them before.

From what you say in your posts you seem interested in the electronics but never build much before?

 If this is the case take a look at Ron's smaller and simpler transistor circuits first, before you build up to the modular one posted.

 

The IC's are all pretty standard CMOS 4xxx Series, cheap and easy to pick up. I wouldn't start reverse engineering a Logic 4 as your first project tho.

 

 

Wow, thanks for the replies guys  I will look on his site, I actually have been using and learning with my Arduino Microcontroller, in this picture, it is connected to my Accenta G3, I made a Mission Impossible stile beam break detector hooked up to Zone 4, so an instant alarm when set. I will have a go at some projects from his site tomorrow before I take on the Logic 4, which was probably designed by an engineer with a lot more experience than 16 year old me  I have built sme things, I etch my own PCBs as well, to put my very small projects on. I'll also add a picture of a PCB that I have made, it was designed to be an LED version of a Airbus A320 wing strobe 

1 hour ago, GalaxyGuy said:

No, just 4000 series chips. Pretty old technology and similar to the circuits posted earlier, but will give you a better understanding of the electronics if you can build and debug the circuit.

 

The microprocessor based stuff these days works by multiplexed analog to digital conversion. The zones are analog potential dividers, with the resulting voltage (from the zone) being converted to digital and read by the CPU.

 

Ah, the microprocessor stuff does sound much more complex, I'll stick to the basic ICs for now  And let my knowledge rise first. 

1 hour ago, GalaxyGuy said:

Agree with SWB. Learn basic electronics. Transistors, gates, flip flops, RC timers, Etc. There used to be project kits with many circuit possibilities years ago - they were basic, but very good. The Tandy 200 in 1 was my dream x-mas present when I was 9 y/o.  I don't think I ever played with any toy more than that.

 

After that, skip the alarm circuit and jump to Raspberry Pi I/O.  You'll find it easier to learn/modify programming rather than the example alarm circuits, but you still need the grounding (no pun intended) in basic electronics.

 

I actually have a kit similar to the Tandy one, it was my Dad's he gave to me at quite a young age, before I started messing on with proper alarm panels. I have an Arduino microcontroller, which I made wok with my ADE simple set reader, which as fun, thy worked together really well, making the Arduino control a siren, depending on the relay state of the set reader. 

45 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

 

Exactly, just like I said in my first post. It's good to have knowledge of the basics, so start small but also consider tech moves on.

Back when Logic 4's where designed a office desktop computer had less power than a SBC's you can buy now. A RPi3 is about £30, wouldn't like to guess what a P5 Pentium system or the like would have cost.

The other benefit is if you get bored of the project you can easily repurpose the SBC for the next project.

 

If you are really interested in making up some circuits maybe try some basic timer circuits to start, 555 timers are normally good to cut your teeth on.

They are very easy to build a working project and if wired in the different modes, give good understanding of RC networks, transistors and logic level.

This is assuming you are starting from minimal electronics knowledge of course.

 

I know, I would be quite interested actually o see how the Logic 4 and Optimas were designed, the PCBs have quite clearly been designed by a computer program, although I do not know of any PCB design programs existing back in the early 1990s. I have just ordered 50 555 timer chips, so hopefully I'll be able to design something good with them, and other chips I have. 

36 minutes ago, datadiffusion said:

 

Interesting,  simpler in number and function than I'd ever imagined.

 

When I started in this lark you could still buy the Logic 4, but the multizone LCD path was one the Co I worked took from the outset, thankfully.

 

Otherwise as above basics then look up a few circuits to build yourself. You'll probably find one of those 200-in1 electronics type kits on eBay for pennies.

I guess they were designed with simplicity for the user in mind, that's what I like about ADE, nothing is ever too hard to do on their panels. 

How much was the Logic 4 at the time? 

[MrHappy]

13 minutes ago, Gabs said:

How much was the Logic 4 at the time? 

 

late 80's / early 90's £34+vat or there abouts ?

[norman]

@Gabs I'll have a look in my garage tomorrow, I'm sure I have some bits and pieces that you could make use of. When I've checked I'll pm you. You can have them foc of course. 

[datadiffusion]

Are you seriously going to post this poor guy some dried up tins of paint and a few late 80s 'Razzles'?