Connecting to mains

[Guest oldtimer]

Bryan 1656 says

I would tend to think that connecting directly to the mains would be more secure than relying on an adapter plugged in to the wall.

Let me tell you that this mentality is alive and well in the UK. As a qualified electrician I have lost count of the times I have found a supply for a alarm panel wired directly on to the live side of the main isolater.

So what does that mean ? Well you have a 1.0-1.5mm cable being protected by a 100 amp fuse.

The regulations are quite simple an alarm panel is regarded as a fixed appliance

and must have a point of electrical isolation. This could be a switched fused spur but as we know BS requires a non switched fused spur to be fitted.

The fused spur should be fitted next to the panel but in some cases I have seen it fitted next to the fuseboard. When an alarm is serviced this must be checked.

All engineers please note that you are duty bound to check this and if required highlight to the customer if the mains are incorrectly wired.

From experiance some customers think that you are ripping them off when you report that the spur is missing ie creating work. On a first visit I would highlight the

lack of a spur and also check the main board to ensure the supply is not on the live side of the board and if so I move the cable to a 6 amp fuse. Why ? because even though the panel has been wired like this for the past say 10 years as an electrician I am legally bound to make safe even when the customer will not pay for a fused spur to be fitted.

[Guest]

as an electrician I am legally bound to make safe even when the customer will not pay for a fused spur to be fitted.

30910[/snapback]

No you're not, all you can do is inform the customer of the points that need attention. There is nothing to say that remedial work *has* to be carried out. If you walk into a house that has rubber wiring that's as brittle as it can get with most of the insulation missing do you stay there and rewire it all?

[Brian c]

Is it not within your rights to condemn and/or decomission equipment/cabling that is unsafe? I'm pretty sure your not liable to make safe any faults free of charge.

[Guest]

Currently, you can only advise that something is unsafe, once the customer is informed then the ball is in their court. If they're not bothered about the fact that their house is a deathtrap then that's up to them, nothing I can do about it.

[Guest bryan1656]

To be clear, when I mention conecting directly to the mains, I take it as a given that you're going to put an appropriate fuse or breaker on the equipment side of the transformer.

[Guest]

I assumed that was what you meant but it has been known for people to connect equipment directly to incoming meter tails with no fuses in sight.

[Guest IM_Alarms]

I do all the time. If I go into a building that already has electricity and start altering things I then have to test the installation and certify not only my own works but all of the work carried out by previous contractors.

30824[/snapback]

We were talking about installation, not periodic inspection, the NICEIC clearly state that,' Electrical installation certificates should not be issued by one contractor for the work carried out by another contractor'

[jb-eye]

No you're not, all you can do is inform the customer of the points that need attention.

Lurch is correct, the only thing i should add is that the client should be formally made aware of defects discovered, this should be in writing and can be on your job sheet. Did you know that the requirement for a 3amp fuses in a spur is a misconception, and an alarm panels next to a distribution board doesn’t require a fused spur as the MCB is local means of isolation, That said i would always use a fused spur and a 3amp fuse but don’t be to quick to condemn someone’s job, you may come unstuck. With reference to electrical certificates i was at a NSI meeting last week and in a room of approx 40 companies only 2 issue electrical certs for spurs

Jef

[Guest]

We were talking about installation, not periodic inspection, the NICEIC clearly state that,' Electrical installation certificates should not be issued by one contractor for the work carried out by another contractor'

31007[/snapback]

I didn't mean periodic testing, I meant if I were to extend a radial installed by another contractor then I would have to test the original length of cable installed and certify it as safe. It's no good adding on to someone elses dangerous wiring, thus making yours unsafe, and just saying "nothing to do with me, my bits ok". I would have to advise of any parts of the installation that were unsafe, whilst also correcting what directly affected the performance of my part of the installation.

And re: not testing other peoples work, that is a NICEIC issue, which basically means if you test for other people because they need a NICEIC certificate then they're not going to join the NICEIC, and the NICEIC won't get there money from them.

[Guest]

bryan1656,

have you noticed many panels in US that has built-in transformer?