Best solution for perimeter sensor connection (Texecom Premier 832 panel)

[ShaunBarlow]

So continuing the saga of our alarm system...

 

I am trying to push the detection perimeter of the system further out for earlier warning on intrusions.

 

The major security hole there is currently the motorised car gate. (known to have been lifted or forced open during the last incident)

 

Sensor setup :

Industrial magnetic contact in the gate closed position, which is bypassed for 1 min on valid open signals from RF remote/intercom. The zone would then be monitored as 24H active, so alarm if gate opens without the bypass having been triggered.

Prepackaged solution would be something like (https://gate-alarm.co.za), which nicely packages the logic needed for the timed bypass. It could obviously be assembled from one or two other logic boards as well, although my initial costing shows that I'll end up spending roughly the same in any case.

 

That's the easy part. The hard part is getting this wired up to a panel, as there is at least 70m between the existing panel and this gate

 

Options :

1. Most expensive for parts: Put down an entire new panel setup with extra monitoring connection to monitoring company. No long wires runs, extra local battery backup for system is easy. 
2. Texecom Ricochet : Use a Richochet door contact for the TX, add a Ricochet 8 zone expander at the panel. Possibly need an intermediate Ricochet device (or 2, 3?) to get the distance?
3. 403MHz TX/RX Link : Use the sensor as above with gate battery as power source with a long-range 403MHz TX unit. Add a 403MHz RX unit at the panel and connect to a zone on a new wired zone expander.
4. Cheapest for parts : Trace existing intercoms wires and fish an alarm wire through. I'm asuming this is going to require at least doubling up the power cores to ensure adequate supply at the sensor, or relying on gate backup battery. I'm guessing the actual wire run for this might be closer to 100m. Should be able to configure EOL from the panel to at pick up tamper events or cut wires (Double EOL zone type)

 

Would there be reliability/technical reasons to discard any of options 2-4 right off the bat?

 

2 & 3 there is clear risk of RF jamming rendering the system non-functional, although I guess Ricochet might be able to provide tamper/some other failure indication for this case?

 

Option 1 will be either partially or completely done by a professional to get the ARC setup correct on the new panel as otherwise it's useless.

Option 2 or 3 will probably be full DIY

Option 4 will start DIY, but might end up outsourcing the wiring portion if it gets hairy

 

Opinions or alternatives would be welcome, even if they are to tell me that everything except option 1 is a bad idea.

[sixwheeledbeast]

All wireless has the potential of jamming.

Two way intruder alarm equipment will have jamming detection so for example on Ricochet after a period of time the device will poll fail which if the alarm was armed would trigger the alarm.

Ricochet is mesh but you may get the distance in one hop with it being open air. Alternatively they do external radio passives or use more contacts. With mesh the more devices the better.

Proper tinned copper alarm cable would be fine for any normal powered device on a 100m run tho you should have PE stealth if outside, if it's just a reed switch type contact there would be no power anyway.

 

[ShaunBarlow]

18 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

Proper tinned copper alarm cable would be fine for any normal powered device on a 100m run tho you should have PE stealth if outside, if it's just a reed switch type contact there would be no power anyway.

Running an 8 or 10 core alarm cable from the panel to the gate seems worth it then. I have enough RF issues with my day job, don't need them with our alarm as well.

If pulling cable anyway, I should probably see if conduits are large enough to pull wiring for a CCTV camera as well while I'm at it...

 

Does solid core vs stranded make a major difference for this type of setup? My electronics training says no as long as the connections at the ends are solid, but practical experience takes precedence over theory.

Normal alarm cable fine if the entire run is through roof crawlspace and underground conduits?

Or is spending the extra for PE cable recommended due to conduit runs?

 

2 cores then used for N/C industrial reed, 2 cores to bring N/O gate trigger if I want bypass logic.

Then still have cores open for future use if needed.

I'm guessing that I should try to wire the zone with double EOL configuration, so that the panel can monitor for cable breaks and some sensor failures?

Then I can fit bypass logic or anything else directly near the panel where it can be checked and maintained easily.

 

So more work up-front to get the wiring in, but simpler long-term and no RF jamming risks.

 

[sixwheeledbeast]

PE is recommended for ducts or any outside work, "proper alarm cable" is 7x0.2 stranded tinned copper per core. It's stranded for a reason.

DEOL would be my preferred solution.

[ShaunBarlow]

Got it, thanks. I'll make sure to source the correct cable for the job then.

 

In terms of zone expanders for the Premier 832 (current 16 zones are filled with a combination of actual zones, 1 panic zone and 2 keyswitch zones) I'm feeling confused.

According the latest Texecom Instalation manuals I should be buying Premier 8X expanders, but this part has been discontinued. Given that I can't find a supplier with stock yet, the disconintued part seems correct.

I can find Premier elite 8XP expanders, but whether they will work or not... The latest 8XP installer manual (INS179-5) says that they work on Premier Elite panels only. The older 8XP installer manual (INS179-4) says that they work on Premier panels.

 

Does anyone have epxerience with trying to fit 8XP expander on a Premier 832 panel?

 

As a last resort I can check if my AUX input is unused and move the panic over there to free up 1 zone (Premier 832 supports AUX as a panic zone), but fitting a zone expander seems like the better solution for future expansions.

[sixwheeledbeast]

This forum being UK based we don't see many international series panels over here, they are normally only for export.

I can't confirm yes or no, but not much has changed on the 8XP for many years and they are still compatible with Pre-Elite panels, even if they say they are only compatible with Elite in the manual.

I fail to see how you can reach 32 zones (832) without a compatible expander, unless they plan to phase out the international panels for the Premier Elite over there.

Even with keypad mapping and onboard expander you can only get 28 zones max.

 

Aux Input can't be used as a Panic input on Premier Elite so that's an interesting feature, I imagine wouldn't conform over here as it's just a negative loop like our bell tamper return. In theory if there was a short on a cable to negative the panic wouldn't trigger.

 

Maybe get some extra keypads locally and move the zones around

[ShaunBarlow]

On 22/08/2019 at 10:58, sixwheeledbeast said:

This forum being UK based we don't see many international series panels over here, they are normally only for export.

I can't confirm yes or no, but not much has changed on the 8XP for many years and they are still compatible with Pre-Elite panels, even if they say they are only compatible with Elite in the manual.

That helps a LOT to know. Supplier also says that the 8XP still works with the non-elite Premier panels that they sell, but confimration from you as well that nothing has changed there recently helps to seal the deal.

 

On 22/08/2019 at 10:58, sixwheeledbeast said:

Even with keypad mapping and onboard expander you can only get 28 zones max.

...

Maybe get some extra keypads locally and move the zones around

The keypad zones on these panels are actually fixed and can only map into the same 9-16 range as the plugin expander, based on the keypad ID, so a lot less flexible than the Premier Elite panels.

 

Your feedback helps a lot, even if the panel is not supported directly there.  If I need to replace the panel at some point I'll go for one of the Elite panels, looks like they have a lot more flexibility after going through the install manual.

 

I think it hadn't really sunk in that the Premier panels are not sold in UK at all, I checked the Texe site now, and when I switch to the UK version the entire range Premier range disappears.

[sixwheeledbeast]

I makes sense that the 8XP should work with them, as I say you wouldn't be able to fill the zones without them.

They are known as "International series" if they are 8xx. This is not to confuse with the "Pre-Elite" Premier models which are long discontinued for example Premier 24, 48, 168 etc.

I have no idea about support for Premier Elite over there but if they are then it's certainly a much more flexible panel for the extra cost. There maybe some other reason why the 8xx are still popular in SA tho.