Problems with leaf tampers

[ttstick]

I've recently had three separate issues where the leaf tampers (two on PA buttons and one on a small junction box) ended up causing wavering resistances (2k2/4k7 system reporting 4k0 or 9k0 resistances randomly) and caused tamper/ intruder alarms. I've tried everything possible to ensure terminations are secure and tight, conductors are making good contact with the terminals and the covers of the components are screwed down tight (not loose, not over tightened), in one case I resorted to adding a little more length onto the tamper leg to ensure it has good contact on the leaf which seems to have worked (and the tamper still functions as required).

 

The only correlation I can see is that each fault occurred when the building was warming up/ cooling down; am I doing something wrong here? Could temperature changes cause these issues?

 

Never had this problem with microswitch tampers that I can recall so I would like to think it's not my s**t wiring.

[al-yeti]

6 hours ago, ttstick said:

I've recently had three separate issues where the leaf tampers (two on PA buttons and one on a small junction box) ended up causing wavering resistances (2k2/4k7 system reporting 4k0 or 9k0 resistances randomly) and caused tamper/ intruder alarms. I've tried everything possible to ensure terminations are secure and tight, conductors are making good contact with the terminals and the covers of the components are screwed down tight (not loose, not over tightened), in one case I resorted to adding a little more length onto the tamper leg to ensure it has good contact on the leaf which seems to have worked (and the tamper still functions as required).

 

The only correlation I can see is that each fault occurred when the building was warming up/ cooling down; am I doing something wrong here? Could temperature changes cause these issues?

 

Never had this problem with microswitch tampers that I can recall so I would like to think it's not my s**t wiring.

What product? How and where is it mounted , pictures would be better

[datadiffusion]

6 hours ago, ttstick said:

Never had this problem with microswitch tampers that I can recall so I would like to think it's not my s**t wiring.

 

You've sort of answered your own question there - I'd avoid products using leaf tampers when you can TBH

[al-yeti]

5 minutes ago, datadiffusion said:

 

You've sort of answered your own question there - I'd avoid products using leaf tampers when you can TBH

Nah man , what about all the contacts and boxes cqr, knights many without switches all work well

 

 

You ever use the flush stuff with a switch on it , they are rubbish imo although put in out of no choice in some cases 

 

 

Or he talking about something else? Tell me monkee

Edited May 28, 2020 by al-yeti

[datadiffusion]

Haven't used contacts with leafs for years now, all G2 with switch, same for JBs it's all (mostly) only pennies.

[MrHappy]

I understand graded sensors have eol jumpers & jb's have tact switches due to wiring faults ?

 

Personally I found adding resistors or leaf tampers worked for 10yrs + before EN
 

[sixwheeledbeast]

Can't say I have ever had any issues with leaf tampers other than the fact they are easier to smash the lid off on JB's, relying on the one central screw.

The more common issue I see are with these type are wiring not wrapped around the screw correctly or snapped or loose resistor lags making intermittent contact

It's not mandatory to have switches but most have gone that way as it's easier to manufacture a break out back tamper. You also have the benefit of not seeing the faults above.

I also wonder what brand and did you find any evidence to suggest it was the leaf at fault?

For the cost of the device if your suspicious of it, may as well be replaced as part of whatever diagnosis you are doing, you have been called out anyway

[ttstick]

I'm beginning to think the leaf tampered stuff is more trouble than it's worth definitely...

 

The two products are the Knight KP4 G2 Double Push PA button and Knight 8 - Way Junction Box.

 

The Knight KP4 is wall mounted in a hallway, nowhere near any EM fields that could interfere with the reed, not in sunlight or above a heater or anything but it drops a few degrees at night, had one random activation where it went up to 4k and wavered for a bit between 3k/4k and then settled back down to 2k, but I did notice when installing if you don't screw them down tight enough the tamper resistance can slowly drift/ creep.

 

The Knight JB mounted at high level in a garage, again nowhere near any EM fields that could induce EMF, not in sunlight etc. but the timing of the fault coincided with when the sun would start heating the garage up (again a few degrees, nothing huge). Same case of random activation(s) where it'd go up to 4k but this happened a few times. Took off the cover, cut a bit more out of the JB where a small grommit entered just in case this was expanding and pushing the cover up a bit, added a bit more to the tamper actuator so it had more travel, this seems to have done the job and not had any more issues for X weeks now.

 

The timing might just be coincidence in terms of temperature fluctuations but not really any clue on anything else that could've caused it, the rest of the installation (around 20 other wired FSL zones) is rock solid and the cabling itself tests fine.

 

I have a few more of the same products installed elsewhere on the property and had zero issues with them.

Edited May 28, 2020 by ttstick
Knight not CQR.

[datadiffusion]

14 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

Personally I found adding resistors or leaf tampers worked for 10yrs + before EN

 

Yes but sometimes you just want to get in and out and not have to go back, and with the tact option usually comes proper terminals not

screws. I find esp. when you are installing a system to crappy builder installed CCA you can just forget using screws anyway.

[ttstick]

6 minutes ago, datadiffusion said:

 

Yes but sometimes you just want to get in and out and not have to go back, and with the tact option usually comes proper terminals not

screws. I find esp. when you are installing a system to crappy builder installed CCA you can just forget using screws anyway.

 

I'll take the cover off the PA that recently activated and give everything a retighten and check (and make sure the cover is tightened down proper) but yeah I think if it fails soak I'll put in a G3 microswitched replacement instead.