Problems with leaf tampers

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ttstick said:

As requested!

Whats the point of the PA button above keypad  as the keypad has a built in PA button by pressing 1 and 3

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Guest

[sixwheeledbeast]

18 minutes ago, Logan said:

Whats the point of the PA button above keypad  as the keypad has a built in PA button by pressing 1 and 3

 

Doesn't conform, not easy for customers to do/remember if under duress

[ttstick]

  

41 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

Bit of a daft place to fit a PA, you have to remove the PA from the wall to check anything inside the keypad. this means any readings you have taken in your OP are likely from the keypad and not with a meter too.

It's also not where the cable entry is on the keypad you have made your own hole in the casing, it's unlikely but the PCB of the keypad maybe pressing on the cable causing an intermittent mystery resistance via some keypad component.

I would say if anything the resistors are clamped too tight up to the ceramic this is where they are weaker and more likely to break. You could easily wire that double pole at G2 and job done with no discrete components flapping about inside.

As for the PA in question I don't use them so can't comment but i would be inclined to use something more modern style, reed switches in PA's are so last century...

 

Not really much else place to put it since the keypad is essentially "boxed in" by CH pipes and LV cabling, any other location would've put it too close to LV cabling or put it straight across CH pipework unfortunately, but yeah it will be a pain to get the RKP off, didn't think of that! Fingers crossed that doesn't start playing up.

 

Had a ratch around on the connections and it looks like one of the cable cores was a little shredded where I'd tightened it down too much, remade it off and checked the other terminations, see what happens. If it goes again I'll go the double pole route I think, got enough play in the cable. I metered across each termination and the resistances seemed stable, but I take the point about the potential for damaging the ceramic.

 

One thing I noticed was some of the magnetic material had come loose from the mount on the PA button shaft, I do wonder if enough of that flapping about could have caused the reed to mooch around a bit.

 

I did notice when tightening down there was almost an inverse bell curve between resistance and tightness, too loose and the resistance was high (obviously), just about finger tight and the resistance was spot on, another quarter turn and it started going up towards 3k/4k again.

 

Cheers for the input!

 

25 minutes ago, Logan said:

Whats the point of the PA button above keypad  as the keypad has a built in PA button by pressing 1 and 3

 

 

 

Easier actuation than pulling down the keypad cover and aiming for numbers, generally more recognisable function/ device and easier to operate when unfamiliar with the system.

 

Same reason emergency stops are a thing.

Edited May 28, 2020 by ttstick

[MrHappy]

@ttstick looking at the screw heads I'd assume your use the same screwdriver to terminate the button & the keypad ?

 

If so I doubt the button or jb's connections will remain tight ?

 

The texecom supplied resistor have really thing legs

 

The cable & resistors are really short, do you terminate the cable conductor with a twist ?

[ttstick]

2 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

@ttstick looking at the screw heads I'd assume your use the same screwdriver to terminate the button & the keypad ?

 

If so I doubt the button or jb's connections will remain tight ?

 

The texecom supplied resistor have really thing legs

 

The cable & resistors are really short, do you terminate the cable conductor with a twist ?

 

They do look a bit rough admittedly, I was using a terminal driver that probably was too small for the job on the terminals, re-tightened with a better, broader flathead though.

 

I gave them a bit of a twist to make sure they stayed in form as they went around the screw but nothing too savage, I did consider ring crimping but I think they'd have been too big to fit between the terminals, or at least interfere with the cover fitting/ tamper leaf clearances, and the cores are that small the crimps could've just added to the problem.

 

Been sat at 2.19k for the past few hours now so see what happens in a few days time...!

 

[MrHappy]

you want the same sized screw driver you'd use on connections inside a fused spur

 

you don't need crimps or anything to terminate resistor or wires* into these PA's (*or iD biscuits)

 

when put the conductor onto the alarms cable, are you cutting a bare bit of 15mm ish with bit of insulation on the end & giving it a twist ?

 

if it was going in a pir you'd cut the end & shove it in.... if going around a screw you'd twist it around & cut the excess off when the screw is tight

 

its pointless looking at the panel readings there only a guide,

 

if its going to play up due to poor termination, place the system in day & firm the device with the handle of your screwdriver

[ttstick]

11 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

you want the same sized screw driver you'd use on connections inside a fused spur

 

you don't need crimps or anything to terminate resistor or wires* into these PA's (*or iD biscuits)

 

when put the conductor onto the alarms cable, are you cutting a bare bit of 15mm ish with bit of insulation on the end & giving it a twist ?

 

if it was going in a pir you'd cut the end & shove it in.... if going around a screw you'd twist it around & cut the excess off when the screw is tight

 

its pointless looking at the panel readings there only a guide,

 

if its going to play up due to poor termination, place the system in day & firm the device with the handle of your screwdriver

 

Ah I've been looping the conductor around the screw and clamping the screw down on top of it, almost turning the conductor itself into a ring crimp if you get me? Good take away that about looping round then trimming, cheers.

 

I've give the cover a few taps/ pushes/ pulls and triggered/ reset the button itself a few times and it seems to be behaving, so maybe it was just a case of loose terminations and biting into the conductor a bit too much tightening the first time, it's only been the leaf tamper/ open screw terminal/ wraparound screw terminals I've had any issues with -  I wish lever connectors were more commonly installed in everything!

[MrHappy]

resistor on the screw 1st & then wire appear to work better...