Pyronix DIY Upgrade

[stomp-aged-canyon]

Hi all,

Backstory

Recently I approached my alarm guy (not sure of the exact terminology! Engineer?), he inherited the system as he didn't install it, for a service on my existing system.  An appointment was booked however no show on the day nor no phone call back when leaving a message.  Another reminder a few days later and a day later he arrived and carried out a service.  He always knew I wanted to upgrade as my garage, as it stands, is currently unprotected.

 

Him and I got talking and discussed all of the potential options on the table in terms of this however since the house side trunking, that runs between the house and the garage, was nowhere to be found, the existing panel and keypad would need to be ripped out and replaced with a hybrid system and suggested a Euro 46.  I would have really preferred a wired PIR, due to the untrustworthiness of wireless, for the garage but alas it wasn't to be given the environment but there's no love lost as by upgrading I'd be able to achieve smart features - I've always wanted the existing system to have communication.  Win some, lose some I guess.

My questions in terms of upgrading, on the day he arrived, were mostly answered however some he had to come back to me on.  I had more questions post that which have been left unanswered however I requested a quote for the kit discussed.  Unfortunately items were missing from the quote that I had to chase up upon.  In the end up here's what he priced me for:

 

Upgrade - £950

 

• Euro 46
• Keypad
• Batteries
• LAN Module
• Wireless DT
• Wireless Deltabell
• Wireless Zone Expander

 

I found this to be a little steep and in the age of the internet where information is at our finger tips I set about trying to reduce this as much as possible/understand his position in terms of his pricing.  His explanation was because margins were extremely tight in the industry.

 

What I found was that I can get the above kit for roughly £500 sans installation.  I fully appreciate that I'm paying an installer, a professional, his knowledge/training etc to do this but I'm unable to justify £450 installation for what would be maybe half a days worth of work?  I'd be willing to meet him in the middle (or slightly over) however he won't budge lower than £900 nor will he install the kit if I were to source it.

 

Here's the system that it's replacing/upgrading:

 

Existing system

 

• Scantronic 9651 Keypad and Panel
• Wired PIRs
• Deltabell E (I believe - looking at the comparison charts of the WE/Plus/E/X it doesn't have an illuminated backcover nor is it wireless so by elimination it has to be the E)

• FPMEQBL PIRs (I believe - they look similar)

 

My plan

I'm now determined to upgrade this myself because as far as I can understand he'll still service it so long as it has been installed.  Funny thing is that I'd still be quids in if I procured and installed the kit but had him service it hence why I'm having difficulty in justifying him doing the install.  Not to forget the kind of bad experience I've had with him of late but the benefits offered by him as part of his servicing makes me want to stay albeit not have him install.  I know the engineer code for the 9651 panel.

 

My questions before I purchase the components above

 

1. How many users can I register on the app?
2. Does each user have their own login on the app?
3. I believe, within the HomeControl 2.0 app, you can see the status of each detector, does this work with existing, hardwired, detectors such as those I've outlined above?
4. Will I need a ladder long enough to reach the existing Deltabell, say to identify anything?
   • I have looked at the wiring guide from Pyronix in relation to the Deltabell E and there's a potential that there could be resistors within the unit itself.  I don't have a ladder large enough to do this although buying a ladder long enough would still be cheaper than having him do the install.
5. When decomissioning the existing system, is there any way to prevent the existing Deltabell from sounding?
   • Taking a look at the installation guide for the Deltabell E I should be able to connect the cable connected to ENG HOLD to 0V (I assume this means grounding it) however when looking at the Deltabell E wiring guide for the Scantronic 9651 the ENG HOLD terminal isn't connected.  I suppose this is sort of ways related to the previous question - can I identify if this ENG HOLD terminal is connected without opening the existing Deltabell?
6. Is there any other advice that I should be aware of/take heed of before taking the plunge?

 

Thank you in advance and I look forward to reading your responses.

[sixwheeledbeast]

Seems fair... it's certainly around the right money, will vary on region a little.

No way your quoting half a day on this, even if it did take that long you quote full days, he didn't install it and may find some issues to resolve too.

Won't find many installers that would install user purchased kit either, as an installer your opening yourself to warranty headaches if there is a fault. 

I would treat this theoretical new system as a takeover, not just a service upon next visit if you had replaced it, much more to check over, some would walk away and quote.

 

You'll likely spend weeks probably months learning how to connect everything and program it with no guarantees it will work correctly. Feel free to browse the DIY Section here for more evidence of that, it's like a revolving door.

Most manufacturers the panel apps have to be registered via an installer, don't fit Euro so not sure.

 

There is more to the job than throwing boxes on the wall, it's a service industry not a fitting industry. You have already said you "want the benefits offered by him" but not the price of the install; you get what you pay for....

[al-yeti]

1 hour ago, stomp-aged-canyon said:

Hi all,

Backstory

Recently I approached my alarm guy (not sure of the exact terminology! Engineer?), he inherited the system as he didn't install it, for a service on my existing system.  An appointment was booked however no show on the day nor no phone call back when leaving a message.  Another reminder a few days later and a day later he arrived and carried out a service.  He always knew I wanted to upgrade as my garage, as it stands, is currently unprotected.

 

Him and I got talking and discussed all of the potential options on the table in terms of this however since the house side trunking, that runs between the house and the garage, was nowhere to be found, the existing panel and keypad would need to be ripped out and replaced with a hybrid system and suggested a Euro 46.  I would have really preferred a wired PIR, due to the untrustworthiness of wireless, for the garage but alas it wasn't to be given the environment but there's no love lost as by upgrading I'd be able to achieve smart features - I've always wanted the existing system to have communication.  Win some, lose some I guess.

My questions in terms of upgrading, on the day he arrived, were mostly answered however some he had to come back to me on.  I had more questions post that which have been left unanswered however I requested a quote for the kit discussed.  Unfortunately items were missing from the quote that I had to chase up upon.  In the end up here's what he priced me for:

 

Upgrade - £950

 

• Euro 46
• Keypad
• Batteries
• LAN Module
• Wireless DT
• Wireless Deltabell
• Wireless Zone Expander

 

I found this to be a little steep and in the age of the internet where information is at our finger tips I set about trying to reduce this as much as possible/understand his position in terms of his pricing.  His explanation was because margins were extremely tight in the industry.

 

What I found was that I can get the above kit for roughly £500 sans installation.  I fully appreciate that I'm paying an installer, a professional, his knowledge/training etc to do this but I'm unable to justify £450 installation for what would be maybe half a days worth of work?  I'd be willing to meet him in the middle (or slightly over) however he won't budge lower than £900 nor will he install the kit if I were to source it.

 

Here's the system that it's replacing/upgrading:

 

Existing system

 

• Scantronic 9651 Keypad and Panel
• Wired PIRs
• Deltabell E (I believe - looking at the comparison charts of the WE/Plus/E/X it doesn't have an illuminated backcover nor is it wireless so by elimination it has to be the E)

• FPMEQBL PIRs (I believe - they look similar)

 

My plan

I'm now determined to upgrade this myself because as far as I can understand he'll still service it so long as it has been installed.  Funny thing is that I'd still be quids in if I procured and installed the kit but had him service it hence why I'm having difficulty in justifying him doing the install.  Not to forget the kind of bad experience I've had with him of late but the benefits offered by him as part of his servicing makes me want to stay albeit not have him install.  I know the engineer code for the 9651 panel.

 

My questions before I purchase the components above

 

1. How many users can I register on the app?
2. Does each user have their own login on the app?
3. I believe, within the HomeControl 2.0 app, you can see the status of each detector, does this work with existing, hardwired, detectors such as those I've outlined above?
4. Will I need a ladder long enough to reach the existing Deltabell, say to identify anything?
   • I have looked at the wiring guide from Pyronix in relation to the Deltabell E and there's a potential that there could be resistors within the unit itself.  I don't have a ladder large enough to do this although buying a ladder long enough would still be cheaper than having him do the install.
5. When decomissioning the existing system, is there any way to prevent the existing Deltabell from sounding?
   • Taking a look at the installation guide for the Deltabell E I should be able to connect the cable connected to ENG HOLD to 0V (I assume this means grounding it) however when looking at the Deltabell E wiring guide for the Scantronic 9651 the ENG HOLD terminal isn't connected.  I suppose this is sort of ways related to the previous question - can I identify if this ENG HOLD terminal is connected without opening the existing Deltabell?
6. Is there any other advice that I should be aware of/take heed of before taking the plunge?

 

Thank you in advance and I look forward to reading your responses.

Swb is spot on 

 

However if you really want to give it a go 

 

Wire it up on the floor or a bench somewhere buy some cable and make yourself a working alarm this way before.installing it 

 

After 6months of messing around you can deal with the logistics of doing it 

 

Realistically as swb your not.paying the installer to be a labourer , don't forget to order ear muffs if you can't stop the bell ringing , and you probably find resistors in all the existing sensors aswell , or will need to put them in , all is possible

 

Price seems ok to me , I assume he setting up all the accounts for the app system for you aswell.

[james.wilson]

Also remember that it's the installation and his skills etc and support for 12 months

I'd also say it's more like a day than half a day too

[MrHappy]

8 hours ago, stomp-aged-canyon said:

I found this to be a little steep and in the age of the internet where information is at our finger tips I set about trying to reduce this as much as possible/understand his position in terms of his pricing.

 

okay...

 

8 hours ago, stomp-aged-canyon said:

My plan

I'm now determined to upgrade this myself because as far as I can understand he'll still service it so long as it has been installed. 

 

However, I'd tell you to piss off

 

 

[PeterJames]

On 01/03/2022 at 07:31, MrHappy said:

 

 

 

 

However, I'd tell you to piss off

 

 

qfa