Suggestions for new Intrusion System

[MrHappy]

Holiday let in spain or similar  ??

 

You be better off with an enforcer than than the stuff your googling for

 

Shocks, Dt801's & flood sensors...

 

Treat yourself to a big tube-

 

 

[Kenneth Volt]

18 hours ago, MrHappy said:

Holiday let in spain or similar  ??

 

You be better off with an enforcer than than the stuff your googling for

 

Shocks, Dt801's & flood sensors...

 

Treat yourself to a big tube-

 

 

 

Spain? Do you really believe I go on holidays? I never leave my house hence the G3 alarm. 

 

Oh yeah... Better with armed guards...

 

ah ah ah

[MrHappy]

2 hours ago, Kenneth Volt said:

 

Spain? Do you really believe I go on holidays? I never leave my house hence the G3 alarm.

 

Buying Grade 3 components is not going to result in you having a Grade 3 alarm.

 

 

[al-yeti]

5 hours ago, MrHappy said:

 

Buying Grade 3 components is not going to result in you having a Grade 3 alarm.

 

 

will get grade 3 headache though.....

[MrHappy]

1 minute ago, al-yeti said:

will get grade 3 headache though.....

 

I was thinking "Cockburns" ? well any Port in a storm....

[PeterJames]

Before this topic gets any further out of hand:

 

OP you have obviously done some sort of research on this subject or you work in insurance or worse you work for the MoD (Though I doubt its the latter as you would not be using Texecom)

 

Most people think that using G3 components is some how better than using G2 in the same respect that £30.00 is better than £20.00, and in theory you would be correct.

 

However, its horses for courses, you have to look at the complete picture. For example a MoD site holds secrets and designs of equipment that they would not want foreign spys to get their hands on. Spys will try lots of things including bribing or blackmailing, and this means the alarm has to be setup in a way that even the alarm engineer that installed it cant get around it, let alone the people that work there, its a similar story for banks and high class jewellers.

 

The difference between a G3 system is not that it is necessarily any more secure, what it is is more sensitive. Door contacts have to be aligned correctly, detectors have to be positioned so that they cannot be accidentally masked ect ect.

There are rules to installing a G3 system and a diy system using G3 components will never be a G3 system it will be a DIY system with lots of headaches. If you asked one of us to take it over I would so no thanks and I am sure most decent approved co's here would say the same, theres a reason that we are not desperate to get any contract at any cost.

When an approved installer comes to survey he will carry out a risk assessment, this ra takes into account theft attractive property, how easy it is to break in (flat roofs ground floor ect ect), crime history of the area,  what the insurer requires, and a few other factors. This assessment determines the grade of the alarm system, the type of monitoring required, in order to be a G3 system it has to be connected to a monitoring station with G3 or above monitoring equipment.

 

You came here for advice. We have no idea of the contents of your flat or the likelihood of you being burgled, it looks a nice flat from the layout so I would say probably reasonable.

 

I do understand why you want to do it yourself and I dont think that your trying to save money (if you are you are more foolish than I give you credit for). If you still really think you need g3 then my suggestion is that you get three quotes from NSI gold companies they will advise you professionally of what you need, and dont be surprised if they suggest G2 quads and point them at the windows. Since the invention of white light filters on lenses in 1992 I have been successfully pointing quad detectors at windows with no adverse effects. Our false alarm rate is less than 2% 100% of that is customer error and we have around 3,500 contracts, SWB may disagree with me on that one but he wont install wireless either.

[sixwheeledbeast]

White light filters minimise the risk of a FA, sometimes installations don't lend themselves to installing the best way. Especially in retro situations.

Often for example on a landing the best corner is over the stairs. I wouldn't install there due to future access issues so then your usually left with facing a window.

They have some tolerance but you minimise the risks just like anything else. I'm not saying a good quality quad couldn't be fine.

 

When you have the option available you install them in the best possible corners.

Which the simple version is always pointing away from sources of light and heat (the sun) and perpendicular to the movement of any possible intruder.

All manufacturers instructions say this and if you ignore it and have a false alarm it's your own fault.

 

Had a job Tuesday were some tool had pointed a Honeywell PIR at a patio door in an open plan extension, it had false alarmed every day all the week prior.

The system is 5 months old fitted by some clueless spark (scribbled colours/terminals on manuals...), seems to be a mess.

It's only just started these FA's but you can see from the time in the log it's happening during the day when it's competing with the sun on the back patio.

Re-siting has solved it, maybe a quad could but I don't see that as the correct solution... it's just a workaround, the bad positioning was the issue and would still be there IMO.

 

Anyway, tis true G3 is pointless at a DIY level, it's much greater chance of headaches than ever genuinely detecting what it's there for.

It could also affect everything I am saying about positioning. For example, they are designed for open commercial spaces if your fitting in corners with possibly of curtains or tall furniture you may have to consider a less ideal corner.

Master bed you have cupboard doors opening onto the ideal corners, this will likely cause a mask. Or if not and maybe you left the doors open you have no detection.

There is more to design than the ideal manufacturers instructions or looking at top view building plans and more unnecessary issues to jungle throwing G3 components in the mix.

 

[PeterJames]

2 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

 

 

Had a job Tuesday were some tool had pointed a Honeywell PIR at a patio door in an open plan extension, it had false alarmed every day all the week prior.

The system is 5 months old fitted by some clueless spark (scribbled colours/terminals on manuals...), seems to be a mess.

It's only just started these FA's but you can see from the time in the log it's happening during the day when it's competing with the sun on the back patio.

Re-siting has solved it, maybe a quad could but I don't see that as the correct solution... it's just a workaround, the bad positioning was the issue and would still be there IMO.

 

 

 

To be fair I have seen false alarms from the sun on glass coffee tables, mirrors on walls, pictures on walls, and this has been regardless of where the detector is facing. Id agree that Fa's the same time everyday is most likely sun this time of year, but I would be surprised if it was direct through the door. 

Its unusual for the sun to go directly into a detector through a window the sun is usually higher than the window and beaming down not up. Many of the detectors in my offices are facing the window and they are standard honeywell pir not even quad, (they were here when we moved in we just replaced the panel)  and we have never a problem with them. You could say thats because we are open everyday, but not weekends bank holidays, we were even closed for a whole week during the pandemic and we never had a FA.  

Im not saying it cant happen and I respect your opinion SWB, I think its rare and although you saying a quad is a workaround, I say its technology designed not to FA when the sun reflects into it. 

Having a detector opposite a window also provides a visual deterrent to anyone looking in