Weird One, deffo... Mxpro4 issues.

[martinhendo]

Right, Advanced Mxpro 4, networked x 4, Apollo protocol. Full system has 160 devices split between the 4 nodes

All 4 nodes have a selection of XP95 ip rated MCP's (58200-951APO) with clear covers fitted,  XP95 Intelligent MCP's (SA900-908APO) with clear covers,  XP95 Open area sounder beacons (55000-005APOX95) And XP95 Apollo SD's (55000-600APO). 

 

Monday to Friday and in general the site has no issues, but when there's an event on we are getting intermittent call point activations with nobody near them, this has no obvious pattern either, split between all 4 nodes, just random as hell. 

The activations are only involving the ip rated MCP's, we have sent the complete config and numerous diagnostic logs to advance with much head scratching involved and are no further forward, earth monitoring is on and within tolerance. 

We have swapped out previous guilty MCP's only for them to come back in again. 

Any help would be welcome.

 

 

 

[james.wilson]

Move the to the start of the loop. I'm assuming a loops issue or another address causing the issues you see. Can you run all the 'rogue' mcps on their own loop local to prove they are dwfinetly OK. Then it's a cae of halfing the loop to prove that theory

[martinhendo]

Thanks for the reply James..

This is happening over all 4 nodes, intermittently with no pattern and not the same addresses each time, Site is a stadium with 1 node/loop on each of the stands, yesterday during an event 1 manual call point on nodes 1,3 and 4 caused fire events, no human interaction was involved in setting off these, cctv footage has confirmed this on this occasion and most others. These 3 devices have not been changed as of yet due to not having 3 spares in my van..

When the stadium is empty/not in use no there is never ever a false alarm triggered by any of these manual call points. Each stand has a plant room with a manual call point, (non IP rated) a sounder base and a smoke head, neither of these ever cause any issues either.

The rogue devices previously have been deleted from the download and loop learned back on with the replacement, They may or may not fire again but due to the random nature of this I am not sure this would make any difference anyhow.

I was on site Friday afternoon carrying out a PPM visit, nodes 1 and 2 tested, all devices fine with no issues evident in the logs of these 2 nodes.

There's an event in progress today, all day.. we will see what that brings.

 

 

[MrHappy]

Walk up to callpoint, whack it on the side a number of times with a screwdriver handle, does it go off ?

 

Every callpoint removed from site needs testing for 28 days or whatever at your premises to ensure it's a strange site rather than faulty devices

 

What's different about match days ?

 

Is the heating on or are loads of fatties jumping up & down when a goal is scored ?

[james.wilson]

Also in that environment lots of rf devices about. Is everything well shielded

[martinhendo]

The Net connections between the nodes are run in SWA the cpc isn't connected to all of them. The loops are run in FP with no cpc connection to the call point face plates, only the plastic back box terminals. 

We have tried to trigger the call points using manual force, i.e., elbow, screwdriver etc.  not one of them has managed to trigger using any of these methods.

All call points are open to the elements, top of stairs and lower Vomitories within a rugby stadium, the nodes mare located within heated plant rooms where 1 call point and 1 sd are present.

Just a side note, the first year following installation there was no issues with any of the devices, nothing has really changed on the site, no change to original installation etc.

We don't have the facilities to remove the rouge devices from site and run them for 28 days unfortunately, Advanced offered to take a couple of them down to Newcastle and run them using the sites config to try and 

replicate the fault but this was passed to our management and as yet I've  heard nothing back.

Today I have been on site most  of the day for events @ the stadium and as yet the system is sitting all ok, the attendance is nowhere near that of yesterday when the 3 random events occurred.

This is just weird, not seen anything like this on any site/system before...

[al-yeti]

10 hours ago, martinhendo said:

Thanks for the reply James..

This is happening over all 4 nodes, intermittently with no pattern and not the same addresses each time, Site is a stadium with 1 node/loop on each of the stands, yesterday during an event 1 manual call point on nodes 1,3 and 4 caused fire events, no human interaction was involved in setting off these, cctv footage has confirmed this on this occasion and most others. These 3 devices have not been changed as of yet due to not having 3 spares in my van..

When the stadium is empty/not in use no there is never ever a false alarm triggered by any of these manual call points. Each stand has a plant room with a manual call point, (non IP rated) a sounder base and a smoke head, neither of these ever cause any issues either.

The rogue devices previously have been deleted from the download and loop learned back on with the replacement, They may or may not fire again but due to the random nature of this I am not sure this would make any difference anyhow.

I was on site Friday afternoon carrying out a PPM visit, nodes 1 and 2 tested, all devices fine with no issues evident in the logs of these 2 nodes.

There's an event in progress today, all day.. we will see what that brings.

 

 

Is the the fire panel integrated with anything other system that's used in match days , just wild guessing 

Otherwise I say rats 

[martinhendo]

1 hour ago, al-yeti said:

Is the the fire panel integrated with anything other system that's used in match days , just wild guessing 

Otherwise I say rats 

The panel is connected to a 2 net Morley ZX5SE system for a one way latching delay signal and one way fire signal. 

This however has already been taken out of the equation as we have had all I/O's disconnected and still had the rogue devices triggering randomly. 

Just to add that today only 1 stand was used during the events @ the stadium and there were no devices causing random fires 

 

We don't have another event until January 24 so no chance of taking this any further atm. 

Any further tips may be of use though. 

Thanks all for the replies. 

 

 

[james.wilson]

As a Magpies fan lets see what we can do.

Why is the Functional Earth not connected. If you have connected to Protective earth in places thats going to be a nightmare.

The system should be isolated from ground, it seems it isnt?

[martinhendo]

James, 

We took over this site and tbh it's not the best installation as a whole, I could write a book filled with what I've found. 

This was a brand new stadium, I cannot understand why the installation company used 4 nodes rather than 1 with repeaters. The stadium isn't all that large in footprint after all. 

I flagged all these earthing issues with advanced and they simply said it shouldn't make all that much difference, that was me told anyway.