Veritas R8 keypad is backlit but otherwise dead after powercut

[sixwheeledbeast]

That's fine I have a similar mindset, but it's worth making the point. We see enough fairly competent DIYers come by here, struggle and give up.

 

[al-yeti]

On 25/07/2024 at 11:23, GrahamB said:

Hello,

We've recently suffered a couple of power cuts and after a length period of beeping from the control panel after each outage, our keypad is now inoperable.  The back light is still on, but pressing the keys appears to do nothing (produces no audible or visible change).

I've taken the front cover off the keypad and expected some sort of anti-tamper alarm to start sounding, but nothing.  No visible signs of damage to the circuit board.  Control panel light is still on.  Any ideas what may have gone wrong?  The system is at least 8 years old I think.  Was there when we moved in.

Many thanks for your help,

Graham,

But taking this into consideration the basic diyer would probably stated here they changed the system battery anyway

 

So sometimes being able to do many things makes no difference 

 

It could be anything , but as said , check fuses , check power outputs , take the plunge maybe and change the battery aswell 

 

Have fire extinguisher ready incase you get something wrong but usually small.pcb like that shouldn't be that bad as long as you don't use foil  paper as a fuse 

Edited July 26 by al-yeti

[james.wilson]

Tbf tsi used to have some info line this. It got removed when I came back from the dead. 

Dave had lots of info like this useful to the diy service types which is what I mean. 

[MrHappy]

On 26/07/2024 at 10:16, sixwheeledbeast said:

That's fine I have a similar mindset, but it's worth making the point. We see enough fairly competent DIYers come by here, struggle and give up.

 

some get good advice. most don't....

 

@GrahamB

 

remove your knacked battery, power the main down without electrocuting yourself....

 

apply mains power only & chances are the alarm with start with control of the keypad

 

 

[PeterJames]

On 25/07/2024 at 11:23, GrahamB said:

 

I've taken the front cover off the keypad

Graham,

 

On 26/07/2024 at 08:42, GrahamB said:

I could probably turn my hand to it in a bind.  I recognise that electronics systems are non trivial and the alarm system may pose a significant, perhaps insurmountable, challenge.

Your first statement worries me, get a pro in 

[GrahamB]

Just replying back here in case any other DIYers swing by and have the same issue.
I suspected my keypad PCB was at fault given there was power (backlight was on) but otherwise no sign of life.  So I got a replacement - ~£40 or so (more than I reckon it should cost given what it is, but I suppose volumes are probably low).  The installation manual for the 8,/R8/Compact is easily locatable on the internet with a bit of searching.
My control unit and battery seemed perfectly fine after the power cuts.  Fuse was unblown.  Attaching the new keypad was trivial, with one slight caveat - the transmit and receive lines aren't wired crossover between the keypad and control unit (i.e. T->R, R->T) as would be the case with a typical serial digital coms line (like RS232 for instance).  So make sure to wire T->T and R->R.  Everything's clearly marked on the control panel PCB (and in the manual).

Another oddity - my zone 2 circuit (garage access door and downstairs bathroom door) were wired as either "Inhibited Entry" or "Guard" (based on how they used to work) but after reconnecting the keypad, I noticed they were tripping even when the alarm was unset.  Thought this behaviour was consistent with a "Fire" alarm mode.  When I went to re-program that mode it did indeed show as Fire.  So it looks like some bits got flipped in the non-volatile memory when the power was interrupted (likely a surge in the control panel PCB?).  Programming is pretty trivial though - all in the manual and very easy to comprehend.  Walk test showed all sensors working (although I have 2 zones that each have 2 sensors - rather than one sensor per zone - which was news to me).  Happy days.

[al-yeti]

3 hours ago, GrahamB said:

Just replying back here in case any other DIYers swing by and have the same issue.
I suspected my keypad PCB was at fault given there was power (backlight was on) but otherwise no sign of life.  So I got a replacement - ~£40 or so (more than I reckon it should cost given what it is, but I suppose volumes are probably low).  The installation manual for the 8,/R8/Compact is easily locatable on the internet with a bit of searching.
My control unit and battery seemed perfectly fine after the power cuts.  Fuse was unblown.  Attaching the new keypad was trivial, with one slight caveat - the transmit and receive lines aren't wired crossover between the keypad and control unit (i.e. T->R, R->T) as would be the case with a typical serial digital coms line (like RS232 for instance).  So make sure to wire T->T and R->R.  Everything's clearly marked on the control panel PCB (and in the manual).

Another oddity - my zone 2 circuit (garage access door and downstairs bathroom door) were wired as either "Inhibited Entry" or "Guard" (based on how they used to work) but after reconnecting the keypad, I noticed they were tripping even when the alarm was unset.  Thought this behaviour was consistent with a "Fire" alarm mode.  When I went to re-program that mode it did indeed show as Fire.  So it looks like some bits got flipped in the non-volatile memory when the power was interrupted (likely a surge in the control panel PCB?).  Programming is pretty trivial though - all in the manual and very easy to comprehend.  Walk test showed all sensors working (although I have 2 zones that each have 2 sensors - rather than one sensor per zone - which was news to me).  Happy days.

true, in case other diyers read this, op original post makes no sense leading up to this , but it is possible to blag your way through it , battery afters years is still needs to be changed having it connected without a load test and so on gives no guarantee, ignore rs232 comment and follow the manual , and default zones all need to be programmed, none of it is an oddity realistically, the fire zones would have been either setup by the op in error or its a used pcb  or they are defaulted to those attributes on those zones from factory even tho unlikely, so watch where you buy it as op forgot to mention , from new make sure you default it anyway as a diyer that is..

 

 

atleast it might be working now so all good 

[james.wilson]

How did you test the battery? 

[GrahamB]

12 hours ago, james.wilson said:

How did you test the battery? 

Good point.  Putting a voltmeter on the battery this morning after a night's charging shows it far below proper value (5v vs 12v).  New one on order.  I'm also now looking for a battery tester which can perform a load test rather than just a voltage test.  I'd guess a car battery tester (12v + lead/acid type) would work for this task, do you agree?  I think it would be useful for the car and motorbike anyway.  I only replace my car battery once it starts to sound feeble when starting (which is probably once every dozen years), however I'm now wondering what a test would show re battery health.

 

Thanks for the prod.

[sixwheeledbeast]

Most likely the battery all along... Never seen a outright dead keypad on these, faulty but not dead with only backlight.

You said "My control unit and battery seemed perfectly fine" but someone queries the battery and you check again?

No idea how anyone would cross T/R terminals replacing a keypad?

I agree with Al most likely you have accidentally changed the programming your not likely to have one setting flip like that any other way.

For few quid more you could have bought the panel which comes with a keypad, that may have been sensible depending on age and if you suspect damage.

 

Car battery testers can damage alarm batteries, depends on the type.

ACT612 is the standard in the industry but you could do it with a decent multimeter and tests I already shared.

Did you do all the other tests you would expect from a service? No point stuffing a new battery in if the charging circuit is blown, you'll just kill another one...