Fire Alarm

[Lectrician]

All cabling and associated cabling MUST be in FP, not allowed to use red twin and earth anymore for call points etc.

39284[/snapback]

Yea, our NICEIC says sounders and detectors in FP or similar. I was unsure on the relay though.

On another note on the same subject....

I have run the cable, and was about to connet the aux fire changeover contacts in the panel which where empty last week.

Some bloody security engineer has just run an alarm cable into the panel to interface it to the intruder alarm.......using the aux fire relay

I could use the aux fire relay to drive another double pole relay, giving 2 switching contacts, one for me, and the other for him.

OR

There is a 2mA 24v aux fire output. Would this drive a relay?? Would I need a diode for the back EMF??

OR

There is a spare sounder zone. Could I use that with a diode for back EMF and another diode to polarise the relay??

What would be the best route??

[Lectrician]

Id personally go for option one, put another relay in to give you double pole. However if the alarm guy has connected his intruder to the current relay, its 99% certain its NC and connected to brigade, so make 100% the system is on test with the ARC before pulling it off, or you might get an earful from a crew of firemen. The customer should be able to put the comms on test for you.

39311[/snapback]

You are right about the NC I checked this already - been there once before in my younger years

[Lectrician]

You are right about the NC  I checked this already - been there once before in my younger years 

39313[/snapback]

How do you put the system on test - ring the ARC??

[morph]

BS5839:2002 makes major changes to cabling and signalling requirements. It also makes YOU as the installer more accountable for the installation and some of its requirements, unless you follow the current edition of the British Standard then you cannot rely on the information given in the posts above, ultimately you are responsible and unless you take the responsible attitude and buy a copy of the standard to ensure compliance, then how can you honestly prove that you are competant to specify, install and maintain a system.

Personally I fail to see why members of the forums continue to give advice for something that they are clearly not upto date on the standards relating to the equipment being specified and installed. Simply doing a job day in day out does not qualify you as an expert on every product or system available to the market today, this industry is a life long learning curve and buying current standards and learning them is a must for every professional installer.

[Service Engineer]

Simply doing a job day in day out does not qualify you as an expert on every product or system available to the market today, this industry is a life long learning curve

Agreed

and buying current standards and learning them is a must for every professional installer.

I agree that every installer should be made aware of the relevant standards by its employer, they arent cheap these standards and as an individual working for an employer I see it as their responsibillity to keep me informed with the up to date standards and any ammendments.

[Adi]

Not cheap is right £167.00 for the BS5839.

All cable must be fire rated for fire alarms.

[morph]

I agree that every installer should be made aware of the relevant standards by its employer, they arent cheap these standards and as an individual working for an employer I see it as their responsibillity to keep me informed with the up to date standards and any ammendments.

I agree Dave, an employer does have a duty of care to ensure that their staff have all the current information and standards that pertain to the job that they do.

But there are many self employed engineers and smaller companies that don't bother to obtain the standards or even ensure that they install to them.

Is "ignorance" a defence that could be used if something goes wrong with the system or sorry my boss hasn't given me that information I did the best I can with the information available.

Every individual whether employed or self employed has to ensure they are current, whether that mean asking for the information from your employer or buying your own set of standards for the scope and type of work you are carrying out.

Yes the standards are expensive, but surely that is an expense that we all have to accept, if we wish to participate within this industry. There are many engineers in this country who have never installed or serviced and dont know the rules pertaining to what they do, it is simply the accepted Norm that they have done it day in day out 365 days a year, as they were shown when they first started in the industry.

[morph]

Not cheap is right £167.00 for the BS5839.

I agree ADI.

But what price do you put on a life if the system fails to operate simply because it wasn't installed correctly.

Or Can you afford to replace the property and contents because the system wasn't installed correctly and the clients insurance company wont pay out.

[Service Engineer]

But there are many self employed engineers and smaller companies that don't bother to obtain the standards or even ensure that they install to them.

Thats true, we all know that for every compliant install there must be several that arent. I admit that as an engineer I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE STANDARDS, but thats not because i havnt asked my employers to see there copies, its because they have been reluctant to lend me them. I know that the standards are updated several times each year but its always been my employers interpretation of these new ammendments that have been passed on to me.

I would like to see the standards in full, but I dont see why I should have to buy them myself as an employee, I do regard it as my employers responsibillity.

[morph]

I would like to see the standards in full, but I dont see why I should have to buy them myself as an employee, I do regard it as my employers responsibillity.

As an employee Dave you are quite correct. As I know who you work, for I would anticipate that you have been given a training/ installation procedures book which will be regularly updated, normally a company of your employers size would keep you up to date by using these books and incorporating working practices and procedures that incorporate the British standards, industry practice etc.