Initial research for multiple site security

[Guest jas0n]

Im tasked with looking into a remote viewing cctv setup for various

building sites that will basically have a few cameras that on detection

dial/connect back to a central location that is monitored by a security

guard, at which point the security guard will be able to converse with

the site if required or alert the police/others.

We already pay a firm to do this for us and it works well, its just expensive and as we already have the 24/7 security guard/central

location and the staff to setup/install/maintain we want to look into pricing this ourselves to see if we can make any savings.

The sites are setup from anything from a couple months to a year or

more, we also have our own electricians who cable everything up, whether electrical or IT cabling, its just where to look to find the good quality hardware that does what we want. We can have anything from a few to a dozen or more sites operating at any one time of varying sizes/locations over central/south west england/wales.

I run the IT so the technical side will end up coming from me, for us IT/Comms and Security are starting to merge and im the one in the firing line so far. The site

setup we'd use our own electricians and the monitoring our own security who are already at our central base 24/7.

Anyone here have a pointer to reliable suppliers of the hardware for such a venture or recommend some kit to have a look at or suppliers who will supply the kit to work as outlined in an overview with our own people installing/monitoring, etc?

The requirements will be:-

multiple cameras per site

on movement detected, connection to the central location to give the security a live feed, be nice to have some control over the cameras at that point as in pan/zoom along with ability to talk to someone on the site through the camera setup via speaker/mic setup.

recording of all connections as they come in along with the voice chatter between security and potential intruder or poor lost soul.

As I said, we currently pay a firm to do this for us currently and its fee's are high but it works well. We spend a great deal on this currently and as we already have the general capability to do it in house (of course theres going to be a few learning curves to get over for sure) we at least want to price it up to make the commercial decision to go for it or continue to justify the spend.

.... and after all that is this the right forum for the question?

[ian.cant]

The amount of information and advice you need isnt answerable on a forum.

Theres alot more to it than, "buy this bit here and get this etc " as your well aware. What you really need is a Consultant, it will pay off in the end as the pitfalls of trying to do this yourself will be expensive.

I wouldnt say i am expert in this set up but ive done a few with a local company i subcontract for and i know its quite complicated in parts and there are a lot of good shortcuts also. It certainly isnt Plug and Play and with respect to your electricians, they would be out of their depth. Should it go wrong theyre going to struggle to get their heads round it all at the worst time.

What region are you working in and maybe someone here can help out with a suitable contact.

[Rich]

So basically the systems are temporary until building works have finished?

Just out of interest, how many cameras per site do you have, how many are domes and do you have a broadband connection to each site?

What is it that this other company does for you that's so expensive, and how do you know they are expensive if you have no idea what they are doing for you?

Do you own the equipment that you already use?

What's your current in house central station like atm?

Your asking us to cut the throat of our colleagues just to get you a cheaper price and do it yourself, I don't think many here will give you the information you actually want.

I suspect that if you are wanting to spend thousands on the equipment you may as well pay an extra percentage on top to have it looked after by people that know what they are doing and are able to provide you with a proper service.

Sorry to sound negative, but what if the builders said to you, well we fit this wall so we may as well run the network cables along it and get rid of the IT guy.

Yes IT, Security and comms are integrating, but that is exactly what it is, they aren't becoming the same thing.

At least get a consultant in to give you the correct advice specific to your needs, you need someone with product knowledge to pay you a visit.

Or you could do like you say and get a manufacturers salesman to blindly put together a system for you, so you can then chuck it back in his/her face when something goes wrong.

[secboy]

Interesting to see your question and I myself looked into this myself some time ago,the main things i found were:

1. Yes the equipment is available to do this and it is not rocket science to pick and mix the equipment needed to accomplish your solution.

2. The task can be split into different sections:

a.Camera equipment to be used

b.Camera control equipment to be used

c.Equipment required to give two way audio

d.Recording equipment to be used(best based at your control centre)

e. Chosen method of communication.

Once you understand these areas you need to look at the wider implications of supplying this service in house,if you out source the service you are paying for someone elses investment in equipment and the monitoring sevice as well as the trained personel to install and maintain the equipment,requiring communication skills and cctv skills not to mention spares for quick fault solutions.

If you decide to go inhouse YOU have to supply ALL of these requirements yourself and may even have to create a team dedicated solely to this task.

You really do need to create a detailed project report for your company detailing costs against predicted savings over a set time period or you could well make a decision which will cost your company dearly with a much poorer service return! Hope this has been of some help.Paul

[Guest jas0n]

Thanks for the comments so far folks ....

I wont be one making any decisions, I have simply been asked to look into it and been told by management that our current supplier of this whilst does the job well, is expensive. Yes, I dont know myself any comparisons as yet to others in this field so cannot say they are expensive without this information. I used the wrong wording I suppose. I should simply have said its a lot of cash, possibly value for money - I wont know until ive researched the area properly.

I will be asking for quotes from other suppliers in this area than our current one to compare but whilst this is all well and good to have a few comparison quotes it wouldnt give me the info ive been asked to gather.

Basically, ive to price up what we currently receive and compare this against other suppliers of similar setups. Ive to price up what it would cost to do this in house. If doing this in house properly requires taking someone on full time or a team, etc who is proficient in this area then that'll be costed into it too - like it was said, theres no point bringing it in house if the end result is a system that cannot achieve a similar setup and level of support that is acceptable to us.

[secboy]

Nice one Jaz, now your thinking along the right tracks,get quotes from other suppliers of the service so that you can judge if your current supplier is about the going rate then get the info for going in house, but remember if the quotes you get are all about the same and they are competing in the same market area then their charges are based on their own costs + their profit mark-up and assuming they are all charging about the same reasonable markup then the charge must directly reflect the over head costs ? Paul.

[Rich]

Do you have the spec of what is already involved with your project?

You really need to do as Secboy suggest and break it all down.

If you are determined to do the complete job yourself then you need to open a trade account with a supplier, someone like Norbain

You can find a list of manufacturers and suppliers on the CCTV Links page of this site.

Personally I would be looking at some tough equipment if I was buying it myself to use on building sites. Have you thought about leasing the equipment also?

[secboy]

Nice one Jaz, now your thinking along the right tracks,get quotes from other suppliers of the service so that you can judge if your current supplier is about the going rate then get the info for going in house, but remember if the quotes you get are all about the same and they are competing in the same market area then their charges are based on their own costs + their profit mark-up and assuming they are all charging about the same reasonable markup then the charge must directly reflect the over head costs ? Paul.

[Guest jas0n]

Do you have the spec of what is already involved with your project?

You really need to do as Secboy suggest and break it all down.

If you are determined to do the complete job yourself then you need to open a trade account with a supplier, someone like Norbain

You can find a list of manufacturers and suppliers on the CCTV Links page of this site.

Personally I would be looking at some tough equipment if I was buying it myself to use on building sites. Have you thought about leasing the equipment also?

49766[/snapback]

No ... im going out onsite next week to have a look at whats supplied currently on a typical installation. Yes, definately tough equipment that can be re-used over and over.

It will be broken down into the various elements as sugested.

Its unlikely we'd lease the equipment, we tend to buy outright but not always. It would depend on the sucessful trial of a couple sites at which point the rest of the equipment would be put in place.

The one thing to note with this is our regional office is one of a number of regions all over the country who are also doing similar things with 3rd party solutions so whilst i'll be looking at our corner of it ... i'll also be trying to scale it up to the group level as that would make it probably 10x the scale im looking at as we are the smallest regional setup.

[Guest jas0n]

Nice one Jaz, now your thinking along the right tracks,get quotes from other suppliers of the service so that you can judge if your current supplier is about the going rate then get the info for going in house, but remember if the quotes you get are all about the same and they are competing in the same market area then their charges are based on their own costs + their profit mark-up and assuming they are all charging about the same reasonable markup then the charge must directly reflect the over head costs ? Paul.

49767[/snapback]

Yes, absolutely ... if it ends up with the conclusion that we are being charged a fair amount for the service and to bring it in house would not bring substantial savings whilst keeping the same/better more targeted to our needs service then all well and good. My first thought was we'll probably end up changing/keeping current supplier with a better price as original negotiation was a while ago when prices would have been far greater .... we certainly havent seen improvements in charges over the last few years when telecoms prices have been falling and hardware prices generally have been too in most areas (cant speak for cctv, im just being general about technology here)

So, im certainly keeping an open mind to the end result either way.