Fire & security included in electricians spec

[jb-eye]

It happens all the time the quantities include the installation or alteration into the electrical services tender.

Brand new job and you we are asked to take over and monitor the security system. First thing you tell the client is that the alarm is not fit for purpose and the whole lot has to go. The electrical sub contractor at this point realises he

[Guest G.J.M]

This happens all the time with me.

I get a tender in from a main contractor who clearly has no idea what the standards are.

The last two i got were to comply with BS5839-1 1988

L2 system with hardly any sounders,lack of call points and detectors.

To have conventional panel with addressable call points.

etc

The other asked me to submit a price for a system.No category and never had a risk assessment.

To have a panel in unit 1 to cover the remaining units.

The very annoying thing is that when i point all the errors out to them,two companies have already submitted a price on their spec.

When they find out their spec is a lot ot nonsense,they ask the two companies to re-submit tender based on my recommendations.

They then submit a cheaper price and get the job,even though they never questioned the farse of original spec.

[Guest]

I've seen it before in various trades. Tenders submitted with 15k differences, this sometimes sets the alarm bells ringing in the head of the person asking for the tenders so we find that we've stuck to the spec for the electrical + fire and subbed the security out to a NSI co. and other co's have ignored the spec, priced for cheaper alternatives on materials and pretty much made it up as they went along.

I've had it on jobs worth a couple of 100 and I've seen it on multi million contracts I've been involved with. That's the way of the world, everyone's after a bargain and some people are prepered to offer one, at a price!

[Guest G.J.M]

i think i will stick to what they ask for next time,insted of doing all the work for them and other companies.

The only think that concerns me is if i stick to a spec which is obviously rubbish,will the customer go nuts at the end of the job for not pointing them out?

Or do you just say "well that's what you asked for"?

[morph]

BS5839 makes you as the installer responsible for the system and if you commision it and say its all okay you would be liable if it goes wrong and most likely your insurance wont cover you.

To say that simply you got what you asked for is no defence, in light of the system type I would be inclined to walk away from the Job rather than take it on. You will end up picking up more work because of your good reputation/working practice rather than simply doing what they ask. Make it clear why you are not prepared to take the Job on.

[Guest G.J.M]

That's what worries me.

At present i do get a few crazy tenders and i am the only one who questions them.I am aware that you are obliged to point them all out at the design stage but so many people do not take it seriously and only see the pound signs.

All they are interested in is who is the cheapest and it's sad.They leave themselves wide open to cowboys.

If i was main contractor i would wonder to myself why none of these other companies mentioned anything.

Unfortunately many grudge having to put in fire and security systems in and as long as they get the cheapest they don't care.BS means nothing to them.

[Guest G.J.M]

Got another legendary design today from an Architects to price on.

I refused to price as it had no sounders .

Again i was asked to submit my recommendations.I offered to to a design for them for a fee which would be deductable if i won the contract.

i will wait and see what happens.Not going down the road of doing all the work for nought and not getting job again.

[Guest Bell-man]

I've got one to quote today.

I'll give them a price for what the architect has specified and then give them the price of my recommendations to bring it up to standard.

At least if you quote for what they've asked for then they'll be able to compare prices like for like as well as realise that you know what you're talking about.

[Guest IM_Alarms]

I know i may be asking for a good kicking here, but I seem to remember finding out somewhere in BS5839 that the detector circuits didn't need to be cabled with fire-rated cabling as the Sounder circuits obviously do. So wouldn't the pvc/pvc to the smoke detector be suitable?

Before you start your tirade, I must point out that I ALWAYS use fire rated cable for everything and personally think that pvc/pvc is bad practice!!!

But If it does meet the regs, it's a little unfair to slaughter someone for that.

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I'll start running now then...........

[John]

How old is your copy of 5839???