New system advice

[Guest classact]

I've now had three quotes and am probably not going to look for anymore at the moment. A few things have popped up and I'd like to raise them here.

1) I had a Dualcom GSM test conducted and signal could not be found at multiple locations. It just came back with "failed". Another company did a test for ordinary Dualcom and signal was fine in some parts of the building. Is this odd? The impression that I, and one alarm company that have quoted me so far, had was that Dualcome GSM signal should be more prevalent than ordinary Dualcom signal.

2) Are two dualtechs allowed in the same room, on different corners of the ceiling or does one have to be a passive? I've been told both answers so not sure.

3) One company has recommended vibration detectors behind windows. Another has said avoid that because it could be set off by someone legitimately banging on the window. They suggest multiple PIRs instead for neatness and to get the two detections in the room. Are vibration detectors a liability for false alarms versus PIRs? What about glass break sensors instead?

4) One installer is pushing Guardtech panels - QX18 over Galaxy 18 although can also supply Galaxy. How do they compare? I've looked at some reviews but still unsure.

5) I've been told that the Galaxy 18 has a limited part set facility (i.e. you can designate one part set group but not easily individually pick devices to part set as you might like). Is this true?

6) Would digital satellite coaxial cable be suitable to run a a dualcom or redcare gsm aerial off?

7) Should double outer doors with two pairs of door contacts be counted as one or two zones on a panel? Different companies have suggested both so unsure if there is a benefit of one over another apart from for fault finding.

I'm hoping to get hard copies of the quotes I have had from all three companies by the end of the week so can discuss what I have found out and make a final decision. I'm looking at a national, a local independent and one other company at the moment. All have been very pleasant. I've also found the assitance on this forum to be very valuable.

Thanks so far.

[Zak]

I will try to answer most of your questions -

1. Why don't you want to use Redcare GSM instead of Dualcom? For various reasons we find them better than CSL (Dualcom). From memory, Dualcom GSM can work in areas where standard Dualcom won't......?

2. You can have 2 Dualtecs in the same room, without any doubt. You can also have a normal PIR and one Dualtec instead. If your premises is commercial then have 2 Dualtecs.

3. Personally, I think vibrations detectors if set up correctly aren't a problem but they should always be backed up by movement detectors incase for whatever reason they do not trip. It is usually cheaper to fit 2 movement detectors than run and fit vibration detectors to EVERY window (there are usually several windows).

4. Guardtech as in GardTec? GardTec are excellent panels. So is the Galaxy. I wouldn't pick a company just because of the panel they use (not out of those 2 anyway).

5. pass

6. Don't know! Extension aerials for both devices are available with predetermined cable lengths, however, if signal is a problem, it is better to fit the entire GSM unit higher up rather than just the aerial.

7. Not quite sure if I have understood....If you have two opening leafs on one set of doors, and one can't be opened without the other, then they should be on the same zone. You are not allowed to have a confirmed alarm generated by the same event (i.e. someone pushing one door and opening both). Maybe other installers have a different perspective on this aspect of DD:243. If you have a type of lobby with an inner and outer door then it makes sense to have them independently zones becuase if that is the point of breach then you will have a confirmed alarm pretty quickly.

Hope that helps.

[Paul Giles]

The two doors question came up the other day.

Normally one is bolted shut and one is opening, we see many companies only fitting a contact to the opening side of the door in the assumption the bolted door will open the non opening door.

It is true but what if some one has left the bolted door open and the opening one shut? its a long shot and an 'insider' job but it can happen.

Fit one zone per door as long as one leaf is physically bolted shut.

DD states one single action should not cause a confirmed alarm so it depends how your installation is, if both doors are set for instant alarm the betting is they will be bolted from the inside and not able to be opened by a keyholder from the outside.

The Galaxy is a totally flexible panel albeit more suited to commercial with respect to one part set.

It has a group functions which can be tailored to your requirements.

What companies did you get to quote? Who are they approved by?

Paul

[Service Engineer]

1) Dualcom/Redcare GSM both use the GSM phone network, and both only use the GSM as a backup should the phone line go faulty or be cut. Personally I prefer the standard Dualcom; firstly because it's much cheaper to you, and secondly it always uses the fastest communication route to signal which is normally it's wireless connection.

2) Yes provided they are not covering the same or overlapping areas. One DT and one PIR is the better way to go because I'm assuming the detectors will be back to back divided by a wall, and if that's the case the MW sections of each detector can interfere with each other.

3) As sugested above, Shock's are fine if set up correctly and should if possible be backed up with a second means of detection.

4) Both good panels, but still recommend the Galaxy 60.

5) YES, I think the Galaxy 18 only has the 1 part set, and I'm fairly sure it has no group set options.

6) The cable would be fine, but you'd have a hell of a job finding those reducing connectors. Best to stick with the pre-fabricated extension leads that can be supplied.

7) Double doors will be fine on the same zone.

[Paul Giles]

Galaxy 18 = 3 groups

[whistle]

I would fit the galaxy 18 any day 3 groups and 1 part set loads and loads of of programing options. you can have links ( program any zone to fire any output etc etc) auto set/unset, sms text off the coms mod the list go's on and on. Or wait a while and get the new galaxy 2 or 3 even better.

[breff]

The two doors question came up the other day.

Normally one is bolted shut and one is opening, we see many companies only fitting a contact to the opening side of the door in the assumption the bolted door will open the non opening door.

It is true but what if some one has left the bolted door open and the opening one shut? its a long shot and an 'insider' job but it can happen.

Fit one zone per door as long as one leaf is physically bolted shut.

DD states one single action should not cause a confirmed alarm so it depends how your installation is, if both doors are set for instant alarm the betting is they will be bolted from the inside and not able to be opened by a keyholder from the outside.

The Galaxy is a totally flexible panel albeit more suited to commercial with respect to one part set.

It has a group functions which can be tailored to your requirements.

What companies did you get to quote? Who are they approved by?

Paul

57789[/snapback]

If the doors have a rebate its ok to fit one contact, if not each leaf needs a contact and its ok to wire them to the same zone.

Even if it is rebated its best to fit two.

[Guest RICHL]

If the doors have a rebate its ok to fit one contact .....

57839[/snapback]

Its not, its definatley a breach of 4737 to fit only one contact (queried with inspector recently), for the reason Paul states :

Normally one is bolted shut and one is opening, we see many companies only fitting a contact to the opening side of the door in the assumption the bolted door will open the non opening door.

It is true but what if some one has left the bolted door open and the opening one shut? its a long shot and an 'insider' job but it can happen.

57789[/snapback]

[Service Engineer]

Galaxy 18 = 3 groups

Yeah sorry about that, I don't deal with the Galaxy 18 very frequently. Usually the 60 and upwards.