kka Posted February 18, 2006 Posted February 18, 2006 the given of information, (gathered by professional with a common need) to someone who has not being throught your very own vetting procedure. you have no idea who is at the other end of the keyboard, just because they take the time to look up this site does not entitle them to the years of good information gathering. is this not a round about way, of maybe encouraging people to have a go at not just their own system but their mates and families alike to save a few pennies. my view is that if they want to tap into this resource, then let them be patient and follow the same route that everybody else in the red sector has had to. if i phoned the garage tomorrow, would they send me out their copy of their manual for my car ? think not. this leads me to another point. if it is decided that members can give out install manuals then way not charge (tech man does), maybe use the money gained to fund this wonderful site, everything else in this life has to be paid for. ( i know there will be some copy right law somewhere). 3/4 of ebay must be copyrighted. another view of mine around this resource, is that only the people who have contributed into it, should have a say as to whether or not the information in it, becomes free to all. my views. hope my points can be seen. Kevin Scott. Owner of KK Alarms...... Installation .. Service .. Repair ...... Thoughout.. Northumberland and North Tyneside ..... Tel:01670 361948 (call diverted after 15 seconds) or 07947444114
Guest Posted February 18, 2006 Posted February 18, 2006 if it is decided that members can give out install manuals It won't be, for many reasons.
kka Posted February 18, 2006 Posted February 18, 2006 Shall we as a forum, provide Engineer manuals to the Alarm User....? to be clear, my view. NO Kevin Scott. Owner of KK Alarms...... Installation .. Service .. Repair ...... Thoughout.. Northumberland and North Tyneside ..... Tel:01670 361948 (call diverted after 15 seconds) or 07947444114
Guest steveo Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 Shall we as a forum, provide Engineer manuals to the Alarm User....? to be clear, my view. NO I agree, if you need to work on a panel you should contact a competent person who knows what they are doing(well at least look like it). If the user starts messing with the programming it all could go pete tonge!
Guest karry Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 I sense people attempting to glorify their (alarm installers) trade. All the reasons / analogies attempting to justify not giving the owner SERVICE MANUAL are INVALID. GAS boilers come with USER & SERVICE manuals - both are left with the owner. The fact that a gas appliance should be fitted by a CORGI registered is separate issue - CAR Service manuals are readily available from libraries, bookshops, etc and owners are not sheilded / banned from having access to SERVICE manuals - The fact that they are not provided with the car is related to economics rather than safety / legal issues. CAR BURGLAR alarm c/w INSTALLATION & USER manuals. By the same token HOUSE BURGLAR alarms when purchased c/w INSTALLATION & USER manuals therefore should be left with the owner. If the owner decides to MESS with electrical repair at component level, obviously he does so at his own risk as ALL service manuals usually advise/warn that this should be carried out by qualified ELECTRICIANS / TECHNICIANS .. .... HOWEVER, reprogramming & installation is a different kettle of fish - any person with AVERAGE intelligence can follow set-up instructions - SIMILAR to programming AV, computer and domestic appliances. a modern GCH system is meant to provide the user with heating / hot water at pre-programmed times - to say that a manual instructing how to reprogram should not be left with the user in case they mess up the settings would be regarded as STUPID.
Guest ALSEC Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 I sense people attempting to glorify their (alarm installers) trade. All the reasons / analogies attempting to justify not giving the owner SERVICE MANUAL are INVALID.GAS boilers come with USER & SERVICE manuals - both are left with the owner. The fact that a gas appliance should be fitted by a CORGI registered is separate issue - CAR Service manuals are readily available from libraries, bookshops, etc and owners are not sheilded / banned from having access to SERVICE manuals - The fact that they are not provided with the car is related to economics rather than safety / legal issues. CAR BURGLAR alarm c/w INSTALLATION & USER manuals. By the same token HOUSE BURGLAR alarms when purchased c/w INSTALLATION & USER manuals therefore should be left with the owner. If the owner decides to MESS with electrical repair at component level, obviously he does so at his own risk as ALL service manuals usually advise/warn that this should be carried out by qualified ELECTRICIANS / TECHNICIANS .. .... HOWEVER, reprogramming & installation is a different kettle of fish - any person with AVERAGE intelligence can follow set-up instructions - SIMILAR to programming AV, computer and domestic appliances. a modern GCH system is meant to provide the user with heating / hot water at pre-programmed times - to say that a manual instructing how to reprogram should not be left with the user in case they mess up the settings would be regarded as STUPID. and a warm welcome to you too!
Guest Peter James Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 I sense people attempting to glorify their (alarm installers) trade. All the reasons / analogies attempting to justify not giving the owner SERVICE MANUAL are INVALID.GAS boilers come with USER & SERVICE manuals - both are left with the owner. The fact that a gas appliance should be fitted by a CORGI registered is separate issue - I dont think so I have had two new boilers and not once had anymore than a user manual CAR Service manuals are readily available from libraries, bookshops, etc and owners are not sheilded / banned from having access to SERVICE manuals - The fact that they are not provided with the car is related to economics rather than safety / legal issues. True you can get haynes manuals etc, but most cars nowadays have a electronic brain much like a computer, that is funnily enough programmed by laptops, have you tried getting the software to do this? it is not possible I know poeple in the car trade that have to take cars to the main dealer just to reset an airbag light. CAR BURGLAR alarm c/w INSTALLATION & USER manuals. By the same token HOUSE BURGLAR alarms when purchased c/w INSTALLATION & USER manuals therefore should be left with the owner. If the owner decides to MESS with electrical repair at component level, obviously he does so at his own risk as ALL service manuals usually advise/warn that this should be carried out by qualified ELECTRICIANS / TECHNICIANS .. If you had your installed by me you wont get an install manual, I dont charge you for the install manual either so Im not ripping you off. I dont tie anyone into a contract, customers are free to go to another installer for maintenance, I dont use equipment that can be purchased by DIYers so it would have to be another proffesional company though. But the whole reason the customer chose my company in the 1st place was because they wanted a pro system. Secondly the reason for not issuing the manual is not to stop the customer servicing his/her own system, its to stop sensitive information falling into the wrong hands, no burglar is ever gonna want to get round your central heating system is he/her? .... HOWEVER, reprogramming & installation is a different kettle of fish - any person with AVERAGE intelligence can follow set-up instructions - SIMILAR to programming AV, computer and domestic appliances. Yeah right! and how many times have you recorded the wrong side, or missed the last five minutes of eastenders because you have set the vcr wrong (and this is a piece of equipment you use regularly, how often are you gonna want to change a setting on your alarm). And think of the consequences if you get it wrong? a modern GCH system is meant to provide the user with heating / hot water at pre-programmed times - to say that a manual instructing how to reprogram should not be left with the user in case they mess up the settings would be regarded as STUPID. User manuals for heating systems are much like the user manuals for intruder alarms. They provide the information needed to arm and disarm the system and protect their property. Most proffesional security manufactures no longer provide installation manuals with the control panel, if customers want an alarm system with an instalation manual then they should buy a DIY system. Pete
Guest rjbsec Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 I sense people attempting to glorify their (alarm installers) trade. All the reasons / analogies attempting to justify not giving the owner SERVICE MANUAL are INVALID.GAS boilers come with USER & SERVICE manuals - both are left with the owner. The fact that a gas appliance should be fitted by a CORGI registered is separate issue - CAR Service manuals are readily available from libraries, bookshops, etc and owners are not sheilded / banned from having access to SERVICE manuals - The fact that they are not provided with the car is related to economics rather than safety / legal issues. CAR BURGLAR alarm c/w INSTALLATION & USER manuals. By the same token HOUSE BURGLAR alarms when purchased c/w INSTALLATION & USER manuals therefore should be left with the owner. If the owner decides to MESS with electrical repair at component level, obviously he does so at his own risk as ALL service manuals usually advise/warn that this should be carried out by qualified ELECTRICIANS / TECHNICIANS .. .... HOWEVER, reprogramming & installation is a different kettle of fish - any person with AVERAGE intelligence can follow set-up instructions - SIMILAR to programming AV, computer and domestic appliances. a modern GCH system is meant to provide the user with heating / hot water at pre-programmed times - to say that a manual instructing how to reprogram should not be left with the user in case they mess up the settings would be regarded as STUPID. You are wrong - the fact that you don't know that you are wrong does not alter the fact that you are wrong.
bellman Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 You are wrong - the fact that you don't know that you are wrong does not alter the fact that you are wrong. QFA!!!!! Would you have much faith in a security system that every burglar & his dog knew inside out? Like Pete above the alarm control panels I install have NEVER been supplied with engineering instructions. Regards Bellman Service Engineer and all round nice bloke ) The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer.
Guest adv1 Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 As a long time installer/ service enginner and surveyor - if someone relys on an alarm to do the job for which it was intended then it should be left to the experts, who wants the call to say that a customer has had a break in and the alarm they installed didn't failed - if an end user has an engineering manual then the alarm company supplying it are looking for trouble, yes there are going to be rare exceptions but as a general rule it should be everyman to his own trade, just because someone has some expierience several years ago doesn't mean they can cope with todays systems.
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