Horror in the US

[arfur mo]

Your information about alarms in the US is rubbish.

There are 2 different things, central monitoring and central monitoring with guard responses. There are some variances of each, but what you're referring to is what you blokes would call a "cowboy".

Outdoor audibles, bells and strobes are quite often not allowed due to local noise statues, so it's quite different than in the UK. Central monitoring has it's own set of procedures and practices for verification as well as appropriate responses by the authorities (bobbies) who actually must respond to a monitored system, properly permitted and not in suspension due to falses.

The guard response is quite different, and they work in conjunction and direct communication with the police using the same radio bands, just different dispatching, to avoid circumstances like you stated.

The situation you described is not the norm. I've worked country wide in the US as well as abroad, including Wells Fargo.

No engineers are dispatched for a response like what has been stated like what your friend stated. I've worked for a bundle of companies, including guard response, and never have I experienced what your friend describes. What's the size of his hat and lasso they issued him for the company uniform?

Look up Bel Air patrol for an example of monitored/guard response.

it's as related to me by a long time trusted freind and collegue. as an engineer he spent 10 years in the USA working for Wells Fargo intruder alarm section, though i do not know what state. now i do not know if it was just a colourful story or true but its what he told me ocurred when he was there, and they do like a 'rent-a-cop' or two in the USA who tend to be armed..

well these facts are going back some years now, so before you scream 'RUBBISH' and other insults at members, please have the courtesy to just concider these facts may have been before your knowledge base was started due to time elapsed or your birth - oh! and yes and perhaps jesse james was also in town at the time along with Custer and Wyatt Earp for a pint.

i would hope the USA intruder section has caught up by a long way since then, or at least they give out bigger guns

[ABC]

Was neither insulting nor offensive, but stated a fact, since I have been a tech (engineer) for many years. The fact of the matter is your mate embelished the truths. What he experienced may have been the case for the yahoo cowboys he was working for, but not for any professional business.

I was stating facts, rather than feed a misconception. Truthfully, lots of innovations, including the invention of the alarm industry was done in the US.

I'm sorry that the word rubbish is deemed offensive in the UK.

I was providing a true picture rather than a dated story of a mate of another mate story and presenting it as fact, rather than state it was told some years ago, which none of your posts indicated.

I have worked abroad (or two) in quite a few countries and know and can appreciate certain traits of different countries as well as naff policies and equipment standards.

The whole point is there are different methods for installation and what is considered fact and a best practice. I base my knowledge on fact and firsthand experience rather than someone else's heresay, respectively sir.

[secboy]

Come on boys and girls play nicely now you'll wake the baby!!! you dont get the word SIR used very often on this forem or even in this country- the last person I called sir was my head master just before he bought the cane down on my hand ouch! that hurt!.

It did the trick though I never threw my mates rolled up football socks across the class again!! I flushed them down the loo instead

[arfur mo]

Was neither insulting nor offensive, but stated a fact, since I have been a tech (engineer) for many years. The fact of the matter is your mate embelished the truths. What he experienced may have been the case for the yahoo cowboys he was working for, but not for any professional business.

I was stating facts, rather than feed a misconception. Truthfully, lots of innovations, including the invention of the alarm industry was done in the US.

I'm sorry that the word rubbish is deemed offensive in the UK.

I was providing a true picture rather than a dated story of a mate of another mate story and presenting it as fact, rather than state it was told some years ago, which none of your posts indicated.

I have worked abroad (or two) in quite a few countries and know and can appreciate certain traits of different countries as well as naff policies and equipment standards.

The whole point is there are different methods for installation and what is considered fact and a best practice. I base my knowledge on fact and firsthand experience rather than someone else's heresay, respectively sir.

hmmmm! so shouting 'rubbish' is not insulting then (by the way words in emails and forums printed in capitals are SHOUTING), or slating a company (actually named 'Wells Fargo') as "cowboys" which infered he was also one is not insulting - i wonder where you learnt your manners - did you work in new york area perhaps on the taxi's?

[Guest]

the invention of the alarm industry was done in the US.

by a certain company called //.National Installer.//..

Your information about alarms in the US is rubbish.

agree...i wish the domestic customers here would take security as seriously as in the states..and not put up with the diy superstore ****..

[ABC]

by a certain company called //.National Installer.//..

agree...i wish the domestic customers here would take security as seriously as in the states..and not put up with the diy superstore ****..

Actually, the alarm was invented by Holmes, then became a subsidiary of Holmes/Dictograph. In the late 90's Holmes was bought out by //.National Installer.//. Dictograph is still their own entity.

Wikipedia will turn up abundant reading, if that's your bag.

Arfur, I was stating a fact rather than words through hearsay, which what your mate's experiences are, and dated ones at that. I by no means were as disrespectful as you infer, I stated fact rather than the yahoo cowboy company your mate worked for. I'm not arguing a point, nor am I acting holier than thou, I am stating facts, and I'm sure your mate's spurs must be rusted solid at this age.

I'm sure you also know, while Wells Fargo is a national name and company, that the individual installation firms were all independent contractors and franchises. They were sold to //.National Installer.//, again around the same time Holmes was bought out.

I have manners, however when someone is knocking something they have no practical knowledge of and then gets offended when their facts get corrected with firsthand truths, I have little respect for the statement which you've presented. I've seen plenty of rude and argumentative posts by yourself, so I take your opinion with a grain of salt. I've worked in the UK, NZ, as well as the US and I can cite specific instances and differences for each market, as well as standards differences. I'm sorry your glasses are rose coloured and you can only see the alarm industry from your standpoint of working in a single country and knowing a single standard. If you'd like to know some of factual differences in the industry and practices, I'd be happy to put together a powerpoint presentation with the factual information.

I was stating firsthand fact and knowledge so hopefully someone would benefit of learning there's a difference between countries and industries, but painting the picture you did is of no benefit to either industry, since I'm sure plenty of the UK engineers could learn a thing or two about their industry by seeing it from a different angle. If I am to follow what is posted in other areas of this site, I'd say that without a SDS drill, metre or longer bits, lifting floorboards, and plenty of plumbing repairs, as well as lots of damage to a customer's premise is the norm for every install.

Oh, for your reference, I am neither what you infer, or intended as being an insult since it failed miserably, however your use of the queen's english is impeccable, the schoolmarm would be proud.

[Guest Cerberus NI]

I love Powerpoint presentations - all those lovely colours,symbols and slides to put over information that no one really wants to look at unless it flasshes at them (and I should know,I had to put one on last week for our GM).

[arfur mo]

Actually, the alarm was invented by Holmes, then became a subsidiary of Holmes/Dictograph. In the late 90's Holmes was bought out by //.National Installer.//. Dictograph is still their own entity.

thankyou for the info above - but i thought the chinese were credited with invented the alarm when they started flying kytes with wooden rattles on. or was it the saxons with the bonfires? tin cans tied on barbed wire were used in the 1st word war when did //.National Installer.// start to trade?

cricket and football and table tennis were all 'invented' in england (i think) but better played by other countries such australia and brazil and those chinese. the fax machine was an electronic machine again a british invention and adopted by the japanesse when the realised it could easily tramsmit their charecters in print across the world - so the orogin of an item cam have little bearing on its final excellence or worth.

Burgot one a Queens Award and pennant for inventing the first 'silent' alarm system when he cobbled a wind up grammerphone and a telphone together. now we are both apreciative of each others vast knowledge.

Wikipedia will turn up abundant reading, if that's your bag.

Arfur, I was stating a fact rather than words through hearsay, which what your mate's experiences are, and dated ones at that.

lets settle for a little corrctiopn here, i related a freinds personal experience as described to me which is not 'hearsay'. i have no way of proving what he said was true or embelished, it was going back some 30 years - but i also have no way of knowing (accepting it were true) if things have changed in the states.

I by no means were as disrespectful as you infer,

see you start of nice then ---

I stated fact rather than the yahoo cowboy company your mate worked for. again Wells Fargo 'cowboys again'.

I'm not arguing a point, nor am I acting holier than thou,

oh no!look again at the above

I am stating facts,

according to your more recent era of knowledge

and I'm sure your mate's spurs must be rusted solid at this age.

so not insulting my mate then - let me know when you do

I'm sure you also know, while Wells Fargo is a national name and company

yes i did - they used to own stage coaches - i've seen Roy Rodgers and John Wayne using them!

, that the individual installation firms were all independent contractors and franchises. They were sold to //.National Installer.//, again around the same time Holmes was bought out.

ere no i did noy know that - but did it change anything?

sorted - //.National Installer.// are now according to your own words implied as 'cowboys'.

I have manners, however when someone is knocking something

use of manners is the firdst thing you show to someone, and so what was i knocking? to the best of my knowledge it was a true and confirmed and so i thought worth mentioning in concideration of anyone going to the states to work, not an attack on thier system or practices.

they have no practical knowledge of and then gets offended when their facts get corrected

its not the correcting of the 'facts' i founfd offending but the attacking and attempted belittleing style used by you.

with firsthand truths,

but then you were not in this trade in the states working for wells fargo 30 years ago - or were you?

I have little respect for the statement which you've presented.

thats ok, its a forum - a place for sensible discussion and personal oppinion and hopefully for betterment of all who take part - sorry if you don't want to have my babies

I've seen plenty of rude and argumentative posts by yourself,

usually to people who have been rude to me 1st of for no reason

so I take your opinion with a grain of salt.

thats really bad for your heart

I've worked in the UK, NZ, as well as the US and I can cite specific instances and differences for each market, as well as standards differences. I'm sorry your glasses are rose coloured and you can only see the alarm industry from your standpoint of working in a single country and knowing a single standard.

well i'm not sure why i would want to work to NZ or US standards while working in the UK, do all engineers have to move arround the world to become competant in the uk? or were you chased out of town by Wyatt Earp?

If you'd like to know some of factual differences in the industry and practices, I'd be happy to put together a powerpoint presentation with the factual information.

i'd be interested and oblidged, i feel if an idea is implemented in another country, we should concider its advantages in this for incorporation to our practices - i do not prfess to know it all,

I was stating firsthand fact and knowledge so hopefully someone would benefit of learning there's a difference between countries and industries, but painting the picture you did is of no benefit to either industry,

well this may be so and if it is well done, if i am wrong on something its nice to be politly corrected - but polily .

since I'm sure plenty of the UK engineers could learn a thing or two about their industry by seeing it from a different angle. If I am to follow what is posted in other areas of this site, I'd say that without a SDS drill, metre or longer bits, lifting floorboards, and plenty of plumbing repairs, as well as lots of damage to a customer's premise is the norm for every install.

well not for me it messes up the public liabilty insurrance premium, so i and i assume most (especially uk only) installers are very careful with their bits. i have been very lucky, only 2 pipes and 3 cables (my aim must be pretty poor due to them darn rose coloured lens').

Oh, for your reference, I am neither what you infer, or intended as being an insult since it failed miserably, however your use of the queen's english is impeccable, the schoolmarm would be proud.

ah, a compliment at last - feel a thaw comming on!

i do not want to start a grudge match or a war with you or anybody else, the post was not intended besmerch the US security trade or its workforce if it did i unreservdly appologise, it was simply as an amusing addition on a subject raised.

making lively conversation though is to add interest, i bow to your more recent knowledge and obviously 1st hand experiences and thank ypou for correcting a mythe (now thats polite that is).

the initial post subject was something i was curious about from when it was told to me, and hoped some one would either confirm or disproove it - i like you no doubt, i never like to be wrong - its an engineers attitude thing i guess.