Working at height regs

[black knight]

This would be the subject of risk analysis.

If you can get up to position with a FOOTED ladder and the work is short duration all ok. (No lone working on a ladder)

Otherwise its build a scaffold

Depends on the time though - my question is always from a service engineers perspective.

what happens in middle of night, you get called to a system, bell ringing and you need to silence it & the only way is to get up to the bell.(Person on site does not want to help by footing ladder)

Its 20 - 30 ft up on a flat surface?

Do you

1) Tell the client due to health and safety requirements you cannot silence the bell & you will be back tomorrow with a lifter or scaffold?

2) Get your ladders off and do the job you're paid for

Personally I go for option 2 as long as I feel safe doing it - if necessary /if I can, I'll put my car at bottom to act as footer

Infuriately the answer should be A because there is only one person.

Some of our sites now if this happens (I won't quote names) and it has happened twice now they have refused to let the call out engineer go up to bell and made us attend next day with 2 people and fill out umpteen bits of paper to say working on ladders was ok by our riles of working etc.

What's everybody else's thoughts on this?

paul

mods - it may be a good idea to move this to trade?

[amateurandy]

What's everybody else's thoughts on this?

paul

mods - it may be a good idea to move this to trade?

No, leave it here. The public need to understand these issues.

[arfur mo]

No, leave it here. The public need to understand these issues.

absolutely agree, so they know why the installation costs are made so high by workers operating within the H&S legislation, and why the eastern European competitor can be so cheap painting a house or doing the electrics.

but i don't think j/p will be that concerned, i take the view all life is a risk and you take your own chance's or eliminate them as best you can. as long as your properly instructed in the use of, with well maintained and made access equipment it should end there.

regs

alan

[amateurandy]

absolutely agree, so they know why the installation costs are made so high by workers operating within the H&S legislation

I can see the day when the householder will also have a safety responsibility that is enforced, so if they employ someone who does not work safely and has an accident they have a level of liability.

It's already there for waste disposal - you have to ensure that whoever takes your rubbish away (council excepted) is licensed to do so. If they aren't, dump it and it's traced to you, you're in trouble.

[Guest anguscanplay]

This would be the subject of risk analysis.

If you can get up to position with a FOOTED ladder and the work is short duration all ok. (No lone working on a ladder)

is that official now then

cant see it all the regs say is you must risk asses before the work commences

almost every one of the " had to do this - had to fetch that " stories relate to customer requests to comply with there own site rules not the regs or your own risk assesment

[black knight]

is that official now then

cant see it all the regs say is you must risk asses before the work commences

almost every one of the " had to do this - had to fetch that " stories relate to customer requests to comply with there own site rules not the regs or your own risk assessment

simple answer - yes it is official

as per page 2 of

[ working on ladders & steps -link for this is at bottom of post]

you should only work on a ladder for a max of 30 min in one position and it it must be safely footed and or tied.

also try reading

20050735.htm

indg401.pdf

basically a ladder is for access not for working on if you go by the official rules.

Most building sites won,t let you use ladders or steps. - its scaffold or those fancy tressle steps.

I have a pair of steps and ladders on top of my car, the time is coming when i might as well not bother carrying them, H/S will say i cannot use them unless there are two people etc.

Please don,t shoot the messenger or get me wrong - i still do my job the same way as i have done for the last 25 years ie if needs be i use ladders solo but some sites/companies (and more each month) are now enforcing H/S requirements so as to cover their own back (and you have to fill in upteen bits of paper before you start work). this means if you have an accident you (or your family more importantly!) have no come back. In this instance you or I have no option but to report back to the boss that a safe means of access is needed (scaffold or lifter or two men etc).

Its one thing risking your own neck (and believe me i have over the years!!) but if that means my family loses out if i do fall then my boss gets a phone call every time.

i am now refusing to do jobs that i have been doing (at my own risk so to speak) the same risky way for the past 6 years. If i get questions on it i refer them to the documents attached and to the health and safety courses we have been forced to attend.

once you start reading the working at heights info you wonder how on earth ladders are going to be used in the future!!

And scaffold/lifter contractors will be the next dot comm millionaires so to speak

Paul

working_on_ladders_and_steps.pdf

[amateurandy]

simple answer - yes it is official

Interesting; read that and it's all eminently sensible.

So, why not, whenever you go up to fit or work on a siren, put one or more suitable eye bolts nearby for securing ladders. OK, you need someone to foot the ladder while you fix them, but how long does that take?

I'm guessing that you professionals can fix/replace/repair/remove a bell box inside 30 minutes quite easily, though the guidance about using one or 2 hands might prove a bit tricky.

It would take me a lot longer

And, yes, I know you won't be able to do this everywhere...

[Guest anguscanplay]

simple answer - yes it is official

as per page 2 of

[ working on ladders & steps -link for this is at bottom of post]

you should only work on a ladder for a max of 30 min in one position and it it must be safely footed and or tied.

Please don,t shoot the messenger or get me wrong -

Paul

all it says is it must be secured - not requiring two people

dont worry mr black im a rotten aim and couldnt hit a barn door from twenty yards so im not going to shoot the messenger

my point is once again its all down to interpretation ( it really is jb- eye ) and more often than not things are over egged rather than the sensible approach taken

[black knight]

Trouble is I am not good at explaining things but the basic thing is ladders should not be used unless it is the only option as it was explained to me.

We had an H/S exec rep in our office a while back and he explained it all but ask him a simple question like do we use ladders and he couldn't give a definitive answer apart from it has to be a subject of a risk analysis.

I'm m sure there are peeps on this forum who are better at listing the rules then me and I am sure once they wake up (10.45 on a Sunday morning is to early for some) they will give their input

paul

[Guest anguscanplay]

Trouble is I am not good at explaining things but the basic thing is ladders should not be used unless it is the only option as it was explained to me.

We had an H/S exec rep in our office a while back and he explained it all but ask him a simple question like do we use ladders and he couldn't give a definitive answer apart from it has to be a subject of a risk analysis.

I'm m sure there are peeps on this forum who are better at listing the rules then me and I am sure once they wake up (10.45 on a Sunday morning is to early for some) they will give their input

paul

see were agreeing with each other again - nsi guidance

risk assess

duration of job

is it all taking place within the stiles of the ladder

no other means of working available at that time

ladders on suitable surface - huleys do a good non slip mat

carry on then

were not looking for ways round the regs its all about finding ways of working within them imo