Bosh Abacus or Scantronic

[Guest N Howell]

I've narrowed down several alarm quotes to two companies. I'm struggling to decide between them. They are both wireless systems.

The first is a Bosch Abacus 6/14, the second is a Scantronic 9751 system. Does anyone have any good/bad experiences with either or any recommendations?

One uses 433MHz and the other 868MHz, is one frequency better/more reliable than the other.

Thanks for your help.

[Zak]

Don't know about the Scantronic but until October 1st this year we used the Bosch for our wireless systems. The Bosch however does not comply with the new EN standards and cannot be be installed to EN 50131 at all. Is your system going to be monitored?

The only way you can have that system installed was if the quotation was submitted before October 1. It is my understanding that no SSAIB or NSI firm should be installing this product at all, as it does not have a Grade.

[Guest N Howell]

Don't know about the Scantronic but until October 1st this year we used the Bosch for our wireless systems. The Bosch however does not comply with the new EN standards and cannot be be installed to EN 50131 at all. Is your system going to be monitored?

The only way you can have that system installed was if the quotation was submitted before October 1. It is my understanding that no SSAIB or NSI firm should be installing this product at all, as it does not have a Grade.

The quotation is recent (after October 1st) and the company is SSAIB registered. It's not going to be monitored so is this a problem?

[j.paul]

The quotation is recent (after October 1st) and the company is SSAIB registered. It's not going to be monitored so is this a problem?

I think you find it will be classed as a grade 1 system, which your insurance company may or may not find acceptable

If the quote is after 1st of October then the company should say what grade of system they recommmend,

if they say its a grade 1 then thats ok if you are happy with that

[Zak]

I think you find it will be classed as a grade 1 system, which your insurance company may or may not find acceptable

If the quote is after 1st of October then the company should say what grade of system they recommmend,

if they say its a grade 1 then thats ok if you are happy with that

The Bosch Abacus range, although still sold, with Bosch trying to push it, categorically does not have an EN grade. I am not saying don't use it - but Bosch won't be able to provide a certificate to say it is Grade anything, which to me is a serious problem.

So much for the "level playing field of European Standards"

[ian.cant]

I dont see how a panel that was fine last month but now we have these new standards in is suddenly "a serious problem".

Funny how everyone now assumes that systems fitted to the latest EN standards are the only way (which they are not) but everyone harps on about what a shambles the EN standards are.

While approved companies will have to abide by them non approved companies dont have to and will be able to provide just as good an installation andjust as good a service.

[j.paul]

I dont see how a panel that was fine last month but now we have these new standards in is suddenly "a serious problem".

Funny how everyone now assumes that systems fitted to the latest EN standards are the only way (which they are not) but everyone harps on about what a shambles the EN standards are.

While approved companies will have to abide by them non approved companies dont have to and will be able to provide just as good an installation andjust as good a service.

As long as you don't say its fitted to BS, EN or what ever then you can fit what you want

But as soon as you tell the customer its fitted or maintened to current standards, thats when the cr*p can hit the big fan

(This includes web sites, yellow page ads etc etc.)

[Zak]

I dont see how a panel that was fine last month but now we have these new standards in is suddenly "a serious problem".

Funny how everyone now assumes that systems fitted to the latest EN standards are the only way (which they are not) but everyone harps on about what a shambles the EN standards are.

While approved companies will have to abide by them non approved companies dont have to and will be able to provide just as good an installation andjust as good a service.

I'll tell you exactly why. I went to a seminar at Bosch last month. I had been waiting for months for them to confirm that their Abacus 6/14 RADIO COM was going to be compliant. Got there for them to categorically say that the Abacus CANNOT be modified at all for EN standards, and that it was barely able to comply with DD: 243. Considering we had been selling and installing this product I can't say that I was very impressed. They have not even brought out a replacement for it yet. They then, most specifically stated, that in line with the fact that there is so much disarray with the new EN standards that if we pushed our Inspectorate, that maybe, just maybe, we will be allowed to continue to install the Abacus. Right!!

So, as far as I am concerned, our hands our tied. The panel does not comply and we therefore cannot use it. It is going to be phased out but will be supported for a long time. However, IMO Bosch intruder support is fairly **** on that panel anyway, and when they stop selling it and introduce new panels then it will become worse.

There is enough ambiguity and uncertainty with EN regulations as it is without us knowingly installing a panel that does not and will not meet the regulalations.

I am finding this whole EN business annoying. No one knows anything about most of it, including the inspectorates. No one is going to get penalised for "making a mistake" which is leaving a window of opportunity for installers to install to non EN Grades, which means that company's that are trying to abide by it are significantly more expensive and therefore lose business to people who are shirking the standards. TBH, I don't think the inspectorates have the capacity to ensure that EN will be introduced correctly and in a timely manner, even when all the standards are finally published, whenever that may be.

Ian, re your comment, most people who would have installed Class VI panels install them because of the monitored aspect. Non-inspected intallers who can't provide police response etc. have little need to go to the expense of installing a class VI panel.

I also don't see the point of an alarm installer not being "approved" - he can't provide the best possible service to the customer. Regardless of what anyone says, I would rather have police response to a system than not, and non-approved companies will nearly always have to dismiss police response in some way in order to get the job. Sure, there are lots of people out there who don't want police response, but in my experience, if a client got 3 quotes, 2 monitored and 1 not, they would rather listen to the sales patter of the non-approved company about how **** police response is, because at the end of the day, it will cost them less, and they will justify it to themselves.

A non-approved company potentially will also lose 2/3rds of its business because it is not insurance approved and cannot provide police response. Why limit your business - unless alarms is not your main discipline? (I don't mean you, I mean the Royal "you".)

[Zak]

Hi

The 9751 is a hard wired system. The only wireless Scantronic panel is the 500r, in my experience the PIR's are terrible, it has an odd lockout timer also. I have heard good things about the ESP Infinity but as somebody has already said wireless systems are grade 2 AT BEST. Try and reconsider a hard wired system.

Good luck.

I didn't think that the ESP Infinity IS Graded at all.

What do you mean about "grade 2 at best"? Grade 2 accounts for at least 50% of all intruder alarm installations.

[morph]

So what Grade of wireless system are you after?