Questions about Intruder alarm quotations...

[Guest Andy Jones]

Hi all,

I am in the process of selecting a company to install a new intruder alarm into my home.

I have had three quotations (one from a supplier from the list on this site, one a big local company from a recommendation, and the third from a one man band located through two independent personal recomendations) and all have one or more aspects that would seem to conflict with the general wisdom that I have picked up from this site. Now my understanding of the general opinion here may be wrong so please correct me if required.

Location of control panel

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All three installers have quoted installation of the control panel in a built in downstairs cupboard/larder. This was where the original alarm was positioned but I am concerned that such an obvious location presents a securty risk to some extent.

The quote on the site I have seen was the belief that any thief could disable a panel if they had access to it for 30 seconds. All have specified a detector which covers the door to the cupboard so presumably an alarm would be sounding before they could physically access the panel but they could easily disable any monitoring. Realistically I am probably only going to have a speech dialer. I could put a lock on the cupboard but its used for all sorts of stuff, coats, vacuam cleaner steps etc.. so it is in use a lot of the time. None of the installers plan to use the existing cabling and cable access to the loft is pretty easy from where the cupboard is so I cant see any real obsticle to siting in the loft if appropriate.

So... would the loft be a better place?

Should a good installer have realised/suggested this?

Am I worrying about nothing? ;-)

Detector Positioning

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Looking at where the positions of detectors have been suggested they seem to be universally positioned to minimise cable runs. Now this could just happen to be the ideal position for the detectors or it may not make much difference but it seems that there should be more considerations than just the shortest run.

For instance in the lounge the suggested detector position is above and two feet to the left of a radiator facing a large internal glass door about 12 feet away that seperates the lounge from the conservatory which can get very hot. This gives a run of about 10 feet max to the control box but is it the best place?

Are there any general guidelines for sensor placement?

Pet Immune Sensors

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We have three cats, two of which are pretty active. Picture a blurred ball of fur flying up and down the stairs a couple of times a day and you'll have the idea. The instalers have suggested Pet Immune sensors everywhere dispite the fact that I already restrict the cats access to the kitchen and hall when we are out. Yes there has been the odd occasions when one of the sods has hidden and been trapped elsewhere but 99 times out of a 100 they are only allowed in specific areas. I would have thought Pet Immune in those areas and Normal in the others would be a better bet given that Pet immune seem to be a compromise to some extent when compared to a standard sensor. At least if I get an alarm and then find 'tibbles' sitting in the lounge when I get there I'll know why I had a false alarm.

Can a pet immune sensor be as reliable as non immune?

What would you suggest?

8 Core wires

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I have seen mentioned that 8 core wires should be used to allow for future developments and to provide additional cable pairs incase of problems. I have mentioned, havent pushed, this but got resistance from the installers along the lines that 6 core is fine, meets all current regs, its what we allways use etc...

Should I insist on 8 core?

Does it make much difference to the cost?

Could I suggest I buy and supply the cable if they still resist? What would I need?

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks

Andy

[Adi]

In the cupboard would be the most popular place but the loft would be a better place.

The detectors should be facing into the property, helps with false alarm prevention and if the glass area gets hot the pir wont pick a person up so much.

As for the pet immune detectors they are safe guarding against false alarms. 1 false alarm is 1 to many.

What make of PIR are they using?

As they are professionals i would have thought they would be using 8 core as standard.

Adi

[j.paul]

Hi Andy

Did any of the companies that give you a quotation do a "Risk Assessment" of your home?

As from the 1st of October, all companies that say they fit to current standards, should do a risk assessment, this will give the grade of system to be fitted..

Grade 1 is for an installation with a low risk of theft.

Grade 2 is for a slightly higher risk of theft.

Grade 3 is for a reasonably substantial risk property.

Grade 4 is for very high-risk properties.

So depending on the grading of the system, may explain the location of the panel etc

But without seeing the premise, its hard to say whether the quotation's are right or wrong

[Guest Andy Jones]

Hi Guys,

None of the installers mentioned a risk assesment or indicated a grade of any kind. All the quotes were within the last 9 days.

PIR make is only mentioned on one of the quotes - Visonic K980. Almost all detectors face out of the property.

I can email floor plans of the property tonight if anyone would take a look.

I'm in Milton Keynes so if anyone covers the area and would be happy to quote then get in touch. I had no replies when I asked before!

Thanks

Andy

[Adi]

Personally i wont fit the K 980s i think they are very poor detector nearly all of it is blanked off. Bosch 820s are excellent but cost 2 to 3 times as much but worth it.

Texecom petwise may do with cats but not very good if you have dogs.

Im afraid your out of my area.

Adi

[j.paul]

Hi Guys,

None of the installers mentioned a risk assesment or indicated a grade of any kind. All the quotes were within the last 9 days.

Andy

If they are not doing "risk assesment" then they are not following the standards they should be working to

I would check with the 3 companies to see what grade of system they have recommended in their quotes

[Adi]

What make of panel have they quoted?

Are quotes similar in price?

[Guest Andy Jones]

One has speced Menvier 690ID, one Texecom Premier 8-48 and the third a Scantronic 9751.

Prices are broadly inline with each other with the Texecom being a bit more than the other two.

Andy

[Adi]

All good kit

[Zak]

Most alarm companies have been doing risk assessments for over a year - or at least have been encouraged to do so. Just because you haven't been given the risk assessment doesn't mean that the company hasn't done it. You should however be aware of what Grade the system will be installed to - it should state it very clearly on the System Design Proposal

Oops - Pete's quote has just cropped up....don't want to repeat but I have started so I will finish

Regarding cable, lots of companies only use 6-core. LOTS. It doesn't mean that they are unprofessional. In a home how much expansion is one going to do from a pir in the front room? We use 8 but didn't use to.

Regarding positioning of the panel - as with all security, it is a mix of risk, compromise and cost. In this case..ease of installation and maintenance. If you want to go to extremes, how secure is a loft from external entry? How many people put detectors in their lofts? In reality, understairs or landing should be fine, but because of confirmed alarms on monitored systems we would usually try to ensure that a confirmed alarm would occur before the panel is reached. HOWEVER, your system is not going to be monitored and should be a Grade 2x or a Grade 1 IMO (but without doing a risk assessment impossible to know!).

It is good that you have read posts here before but you have to realise that the chance of most types of burglar's coming in and circumventing your system is HIGHLY REMOTE. As Pete, says, if you believe that to be the case then you need Redcare GSM and a higher spec system.