norman Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 Not being from an intruder background but reflecting on previous posts it would appear better to have no system as opposed to a bells only.They may offer you a reduction on your premium but should the unthinkable happen getting money outta them will be a different story. QFA, "Oh sorry Mr Spark, but according to the log we requested from your system it shows it was unset, and under our T's & C's you have not taken due care, you are the weakest link....." / insurance co. Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 I have been thinking that why everybody is so afraid of panel defaulting.. Shouldn't it be installed so that defaulting it couldn't be made without an alarm? I mean in the case that the "defaulter" does not know engineer code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 Let look at this from another angle. Avionics engineer O.K. many of us on here have sufficient knowledge to do this job but don Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 It is the installer sector that is restricting the use of products that customers have paid for and my argument is that we have no established legal right to do that.Yes we have the right to protect our contracts and yes we have the right to protect our engineer codes. We have no obligation to tell punters how to default panels or to give them engineer codes but we do have the obligation to default systems if requested and paid to do so - IMO we do not have the right to withold from the customer the ability to use what he has paid for, however ill-advised we may consider what he proposes to do with it, (excluding criminal activity of course). rjbsec (we are nearly on the same page)We (JB-EYE) don Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 You all have valid points, without exception. The facts are however: the guy has moved house and taken a dismantled system with him. End of any liability to the installer of the original system. In an ideal world //.National Installer.// should have removed and taken with them the bell box covers though. He says he has the manual. Is not the defaulting info in there, as it is with other panels? Haven't looked myself at this panel/engineer manual. When I go home I barely have time to enter my 6-digit alarm code, never mind go through thousands of permeantations of it. How do we know he is really an avionics engineer and not in the library at Wormword Scrubs waiting to be released and go target a specific place? He is not going to get info here. If he can get it elsewhere then so be it. If he can't then he should pay for an alarm engineer to come and default it for him. At the end of the day, none of us have signed any non-disclosures with any manufacturer. It is not in any of the standards and it is not brought up by the inspectorates that we should withhold certain information. We just KNOW that it is extremely dangerous and stupid to have that info freely available. But this guy knows that too. I do think he should be able to play with his panel - it's his. But not with someone else's name on it though. Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 IMO end of maintenance, = end of liability Not true. If the product is found to not be fit for purpose, you are liable maintained or not, see post on internal sounder. Have you ever serviced your own vehicle or taken it to the local garage rather than the main dealer? Sure, many do this, but if you modify the design then your not insured. That Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morph Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Have you ever serviced your own vehicle or taken it to the local garage rather than the main dealer? Due to recent european legislation it is no longer a requirement that a vehicle is serviced by a main dealer, so long as the person is competant and does the works to the same standard, then anybody can service a new car during the warranty period, obviously if it requires warranty works you will need to go to a franchised dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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