Confused

[Guest Greebo]

Hey all,

I moved into my house about 11 months ago now.

The house is fitted with what seems to be an Aritech Horizon (possibly cp35) alarm.

I have a code for it, but as I have said before on this site, so do the last 5 or 6 people who rented the house so I would ideally like to change it.

I did not receive any manuals/docs when I moved in. It appears none were left behind.

Somebody kindly sent me about 8/9 pages of some sor tof guide showing how to add a second operator code but that requires a "Master Code" which I do not have.

The alarm company who fitted the alarm are no longer in business.

I am about to get new windows/doors fitted so I guess I need to remove all the sensors but I have been advised that this will set off the alarm as it will consider it a tamper event.

So my question is what am I supposed to do?

I dont see why I should have to pay someone to come out and take off and then re-attach my sensors on "My Alarm"

Im not renting the alarm, I have no service agreement, its mine outright, but I am denied full access to it because I cant get my hands on the required codes.

What does anyone suggest I do?

And how is this considered fair?

Reading the vote regarding should the manuals be made available it seems that most users are frustrated by the fact that they cannot modify their own alarm.

Much as I hate to say it, it looks a lot like job protection.

[Guest rjbsec]

Your grouse should not be against us or the installer industry at large.

When you bought the house did you not arrange for instructions for the alarm system to be supplied?

Did your solicitor not ascertain if the system was in full working order and under a current maintenance contract with an available installer?

No! - then why should it be someone elses responsibility to correct your/your solicitors failures?

Why should it be someone elses responsibility to remove the sensors from your windows?

You are denied full access to your system because you did not take sufficient care to establish what was needed at the time of buying the house.

Now either sue the previous owner or your solicitor or take the easier route of finding a friendly local installer who can help you rectify your errors.

[morph]

Your grouse should not be against us or the installer industry at large.

When you bought the house did you not arrange for instructions for the alarm system to be supplied?

Did your solicitor not ascertain if the system was in full working order and under a current maintenance contract with an available installer?

No! - then why should it be someone elses responsibility to correct your/your solicitors failures?

Why should it be someone elses responsibility to remove the sensors from your windows?

You are denied full access to your system because you did not take sufficient care to establish what was needed at the time of buying the house.

Now either sue the previous owner or your solicitor or take the easier route of finding a friendly local installer who can help you rectify your errors.

AGREED.

This is a voluntary site the help provided is supplied by engineers who choose help on the site, we between ourselves choose who to help and who not, that is our own choice neither you or any other member can force us to assist you. The very nature of the product dictates that the security of a system is reduced by the information that is available on it, this is why engineering manuals are not provided, in any case the manuals that each individual has, have been built up over many years, why should we divulge that information if we do not want to.

Are you competent to work on a system that contains both 230volts and DC voltage, if you get hurt or electrocuted, presumably you would us sue for giving you the manual.

No doubt you were previously advised to get a local engineer in to service and reprogram your system at a cost of probably not more than

[Rich]

If the installation details and information on how to reset your alarm was given to you or someone not in the trade, would you then come back complaining that a burglar was given instructions on how to reset your alarm before emptying your house of your valued possessions?

If you alarm has not been serviced, and you do not have the codes, why wouldn't you get a company in to service your alarm, remove the window sensors and reset it so you can then have a new master code?

It is not job protection, it is protection for everyone with an alarm system.

[Guest Greebo]

First off it wasnt (meant as) an attack on the users/admins of this board.

I just happen to disagree with the practice of not supplying user manuals on an install.

(as was stated by several on the "should we supply them on here" poll)

Every other manual was supplied with the house, i.e. cooker, fridge etc

Are you competent to work on a system that contains both 230volts and DC voltage, if you get hurt or electrocuted, presumably you would us sue for giving you the manual.

yes I am, and why on earth would I sue anyone on here?

I could just as easily sue the person who sold me the screwdriver.

Thats what gave me the access!

When you bought your TV did you insist on the circuit diagrams? NO

When you bought your car did you get the dealer workshop manual? NO

No, but I make sure that I get the User Manuals.

You think its fair/right that I have to pay someone to take off my sensors and then put them back on? I dont.

If you wanted to change the bulbs in your car would you think it normal to have to send it to the garage for them to flick a switch to enable you to do it?

[Guest rjbsec]

You think its fair/right that I have to pay someone to take off my sensors and then put them back on? I dont.

If you wanted to change the bulbs in your car would you think it normal to have to send it to the garage for them to flick a switch to enable you to do it?

If you are competent to change the car bulbs you do it - if not you take it to the garage, and they don't do it for free.

If you are competent to take the sensors of your windows you do it - if not you get an installer in, and surprise, surprise, they don't do it for free either.

[morph]

First off it wasnt (meant as) an attack on the users/admins of this board.

I just happen to disagree with the practice of not supplying user manuals on an install.

(as was stated by several on the "should we supply them on here" poll) You were not the customer when your system was installed, how do you know if one was provided to the previous owner?

We do supply many manuals to DIY alarms, your system is not a diy alarm and its the forums memberships choice not to provide these manuals as the brand is strictly controlled and sold to the trade only, there are many installers who would like to use these panels, WHO CANNOT because of these controls

Every other manual was supplied with the house, i.e. cooker, fridge etc

yes I am, and why on earth would I sue anyone on here?

I could just as easily sue the person who sold me the screwdriver.

Thats what gave me the access!

No, but I make sure that I get the User Manuals.

So why did you not get the one for the alarm of the previous owner?

You think its fair/right that I have to pay someone to take off my sensors and then put them back on? I dont.

Nobody is suggesting that you pay to take your sensors of the wall, you are free to do this yourself or even get the window installers to do this for you.

If you wanted to change the bulbs in your car would you think it normal to have to send it to the garage for them to flick a switch to enable you to do it?

I agree and normaly I do this without a manual

Somebody kindly sent me about 8/9 pages of some sor tof guide showing how to add a second operator code but that requires a "Master Code" which I do not have.

You said yourself that you already got the information that you needed to change the code, the master code is a user code, if you do not have this, the systems programming will need to be defaulted and the entire system reprogrammed

[Guest Greebo]

You were not the customer when your system was installed, how do you know if one was provided to the previous owner?

We do supply many manuals to DIY alarms, your system is not a diy alarm and its the forums memberships choice not to provide these manuals as the brand is strictly controlled and sold to the trade only, there are many installers who would like to use these panels, WHO CANNOT because of these controls

Great, but there are also many owners who cannot do a simple thing like change the user code because of this.

Nobody is suggesting that you pay to take your sensors of the wall, you are free to do this yourself or even get the window installers to do this for you.

Window installers will not do this, and anyways I want to do it so that I know its done right.

The problem is that removing the sensors (eg vibration) will trigger the tamper setting and then I (probably) need some code to turn that off. I dont know, I dont have a user manual.

I agree and normaly I do this without a manual

yeah but what would you do if that set off the car alarm? thats the position Im in.

You said yourself that you already got the information that you needed to change the code, the master code is a user code, if you do not have this, the systems programming will need to be defaulted and the entire system reprogrammed

I only have a couple of pages from the (larger) user manual. I dont want to start something and then discover that I need some engineers code to complete/revert.

If you are competent to change the car bulbs you do it - if not you take it to the garage, and they don't do it for free.

If you are competent to take the sensors of your windows you do it - if not you get an installer in, and surprise, surprise, they don't do it for free either.

yes. thanks for explaining that to me.

I am competent to remove the sensors, but, as I have already explained, if that triggers a tamper alert that needs to be turned off using an engineers code I am a bit stuck, dont you agree?

[morph]

So basically you want us to tell you how to defeat the system so that it doesn't cause a problem.

You want this information for free and you wont be happy unless we tell you.

WHY SHOULD WE? WHAT OBLIGATIONS DID WE GIVE YOU WHEN YOU BOUGHT THE HOUSE?

Hang on just had a brainwave, why not DIY install the windows get a manual from the UPVC people that will tell you what to do and with the money saved on the installation one of us will come round and remove your sensors, default the panel and then reprogram it, give you a certificate of compliance etc etc etc.

You seem to think that the manuals tell us how do everything that could possibly ever go wrong with a system, Sorry they DONT we have to have many years of experience to be able to know everything and even then we are still learning.

Bottom line is that you wont be happy regardless of what we tell you!

[Guest rjbsec]

I am a bit stuck, dont you agree?

No! we've told you what to do - get a competent person to resolve your problem, however a bigger problem is that you don't want to hear the solution.