Commercial Installations

[ZippyCat]

I have heard that a consultant gets paid a bouns if the scheme that they are working on comes in under the budget is this true ?

No we get paid a standard fee for the job, or sometimes a basic fee plus a certain percentage of the installation costs (approximately 2%). For example, a socket may cost

[Guest Cerberus NI]

This is the point in time where the installer should identify their concerns to the consultant and address the situation accordingly.

Generally when a building is completed, we as consultants sign documentation and certificates (as the system designers) to take responsibility for the scheme. If something goes wrong, for instance someone dies in a fire as a direct result of our negligence, we can be prosecuted for manslaughter. If a scheme does not fully comply with BS 5839, the specialist will complete a compliance certificate for BS 5839 but highlight all exemptions and deviations. People need to realise that the systems are not thrown together in 5 minutes, but carefully planned and coordinated over many months with the relevant authorities. Yes an installer may look at a scheme and say it doesn

[Paul P]

Well the installers will simply not get the lucrative jobs.

So are you saying you would rather employ a cowboy who will do it your way regardless of any regulations or recommendations from insurance companies or inspectorates that are in force?

[Zak]

I don't know what everyone is getting so worked up about. There is nothing so much different to system design to the way it was before. Cost difference is nominal. And if these people had a flaw in their design and it was picked up by the quoting/installation company then the consultants are likely to adopt it. If they don't want to adopt it, and if it does not contravene the standards, then the system can still go in. People interpret risk in different ways. Just because the EN standards have come in are you telling me that in previous years when you have recommended particular coverage for a client they never refused due to whatever reason? As long you have covered yourself in your risk assessment then no problem. In reality not many companies jump up and down, have a screaming tantrum, spit out their dummy, climb out their pram and storm off taking the moral high ground. We are in business to make money and as long as the system complies then there shouldn't be a problem.

I know we are all quite territorial and think that no one can specify alarms apart from us super qualified people, but it is just not reality.

[ZippyCat]

So are you saying you would rather employ a cowboy who will do it your way regardless of any regulations or recommendations from insurance companies or inspectorates that are in force?

No, I

[Guest]

Well, in case it is the consultant who will be sued and responsible for design faults I don't see any problem in working with them especially if I will get the consultant to sign my disclaimer for our responsibility of system design.

What comes to limiting our markets perhaps to domestic only..

I have enough work at the moment fixing design and installation faults caused by consultants and reputable installation companies who work for consultants (and for one amateur class big company which exist there as well as here..).

[Nova-Security]

No, I

[Guest]

...works for a national and they have corporate boxes for the so called entertaining, golf days and the good old bottles at christmas, and this is a security company who is supposed to be honest / striaght and above board.

...

There's nothin' wrong in a bottle...

[Zak]

So would us the installer be able to put more on the job to keep our relationship with the consultants happy, just slide that brown paper bag in my pocket

I know this goes on, but my comapny will never buy work in in this manner, one of my friends works for a national and they have corporate boxes for the so called entertaining, golf days and the good old bottles at christmas, and this is a security company who is supposed to be honest / striaght and above board.

Have you done any work for any consultants before ?

As for the spitting their dummy out, I think you wrong and by the sounds of it have never been involed with any consultants or you would not have posted what you did.

If by "consultant" you refer to third party non-industry person who thinks there is nothing to designing a security system, then yes, loads of times. But, I am not drawing on past experience when responding to these posts, I evaluated what Zippy said and can't see what is wrong if things work in the manner described. Call in ten alarm companies, some will send engineers, some experienced consultants, some consultants who did a one day alarm course on how to sell them. All will have different system design. As long as it complies it is not a problem. Zippy did not appear to have a closed door mentality. If you re-read the posts with a more open mind, I don't think you can but agree.

And with regard to "commission" and keeping people happy, we are all completely against it (with a passion) until we get work and start sending that bottle.

[Nova-Security]

As long as it complies it is not a problem.

Hit the nail on the head...........but we have seen what a consultant thinks a system is also Zippycat might be more in touch with the standards, just before christmas i had to expalin to a consultant the ins and out of DD243 he did not have a clue.