Squirrels

[thelockdude]

I have an alarm system in an empty building undergoing renovations. At the customers' request, I installed motion sensors and surface stapled the wires. There is so much construction going on, that is the easiest way their workers can move the detectors when they need to. Problem is, I am getting a lot of false alarms with the detectors. We think it is squirrels getting into the building..

I started with Ademco (Honeywell) Aurora PIR's (got some for free) and replaced them a week later with Crow Genius plus Pet. Still false alarms. I think the critters are walking right over the face of the detectors.

I am wondering this: what if I put the Aurora's back in, side-by-side with the Crow's, and wired each crow/aurora pair in series? Then the animal would have to walk across both detectors at the same time to cause an alarm. I'm even thinking putting them a few feet apart but basically covering a redundant area. Then I don't see how any small animal could trip both detectors at the same time (unless they worked together as a team).

I would appreciate any advice anyone is willing to offer on this problem.

Dan

[Nova-Security]

I have read the goverment are to start to get ride of the Gray Squirrels, why not help them out and get a air rifle, on the alarm front if the rat with tale is walking over the detector there is nothing you can do, you could put two detectors in the room wired as beam pair if the panel supports it.

[thelockdude]

Haha - is that a real recipe? I'm a vegetarian; I wonder if they have a soy-squirrel substitute I could use.

You both mentioned a "beam-pair" - is that what you call 2 PIR's wired in series? Or is a beam pair something else entirely? I ask because Nova-Security also added "if the panel supports it". I don't understand why the panel would need to support it if it's just wiring the 2 detectors in series like I was describing. But if it's something else...I am unfamiliar with the term.

Dan

[morph]

Its a software function on some higher spec UK panels.

As you are not uk based you might need to get a specific software option set up by your panel manufacturer, what panel are you using?

[norman]

I was once fitting some CCTV to a large bungalow near Leeds, gets to go in the loft and put both my hands either side of the hatch....the little git's had chewed the insulation from the T+E lighting cables and I got a shock, but not as much as the owner the whole loft area needed rewiring. Horrible things squirrels.

[bellman]

I was once fitting some CCTV to a large bungalow near Leeds, gets to go in the loft and put both my hands either side of the hatch....the little git's had chewed the insulation from the T+E lighting cables and I got a shock, but not as much as the owner the whole loft area needed rewiring. Horrible things squirrels.

No risk assessment first norm

[arfur mo]

Haha - is that a real recipe? I'm a vegetarian; I wonder if they have a soy-squirrel substitute I could use.

You both mentioned a "beam-pair" - is that what you call 2 PIR's wired in series? Or is a beam pair something else entirely? I ask because Nova-Security also added "if the panel supports it". I don't understand why the panel would need to support it if it's just wiring the 2 detectors in series like I was describing. But if it's something else...I am unfamiliar with the term.

Dan

a 'beam pair' is normally used for 2 ir rays say along a run of windows or a skylight, its a way of determining that one ray has failed prior to setting and but both rays have to activate together before an alarm is signalled.

if your panel can not be programmed that way then wire both detectors in parellel as is common in a dualtec, being pirs they are less likely to 'fail' like beams will due to an obstruction, but make sure the builders do not block one of the pirs or nothing will alarm.

have you concidered using 'double knock' with a short 'window' setting? perhaps a pir in each corner overlapping each other?

all the above will lower the responsiveness of a security systems detection, but something is better than nothing.

regs

arfur_mo

[thelockdude]

Thanks arfur_mo.

I'm using a Honeywell (previously Ademco) Vista20P. I don't see beam pairs as a zone type in the panel's manual (although you can configure custom zone types). I understand wiring them parallel, and opposite corners of the room is a great idea.

What does 'double knock' with a short 'window' setting mean? Is that the same as decreasing the pulse count, i.e. with jumper settings on the detector itself?

As far as lowering the responsiveness of the detection, my customer's biggest concern is kids, teenagers, etc. making the place a local hang-out. The place is completely vacant - nothing to steal and very little to vandalize. So the system doesn't have to go into alarm on a hair-trigger.

Thanks everyone.

Dan

[arfur mo]

Thanks arfur_mo.

I'm using a Honeywell (previously Ademco) Vista20P. I don't see beam pairs as a zone type in the panel's manual (although you can configure custom zone types). I understand wiring them parallel, and opposite corners of the room is a great idea.

What does 'double knock' with a short 'window' setting mean? Is that the same as decreasing the pulse count, i.e. with jumper settings on the detector itself?

As far as lowering the responsiveness of the detection, my customer's biggest concern is kids, teenagers, etc. making the place a local hang-out. The place is completely vacant - nothing to steal and very little to vandalize. So the system doesn't have to go into alarm on a hair-trigger.

Thanks everyone.

Dan

hi dan,

in the controls set up there is/may be a setting usually in the double knock/arm/re-arm area of the program menu factory default is usually 1 minute, alhough your panel might have a different approach. the 'window' is the time period set in seconds or minutes measured from the 1st detected actioned (knock) to the second knock. and refered to a 'window' (of opertunity perhaps! )

this is different for the the detectors, depending on type some work on sequentiall knocks across detection zones so say movement across 3 - 8 zones depends on the maker and the link. the higher the number the more zones need crossing so i'd go no more than 2 if using the following.

you have to first appreciate that 'double knock' is not allied to a single zone i.e. a knock on Z2 followed by a knock on Z5 will result in an alarm (or you would need 4 knocks - i'm knockered now..) the 2nd spec of double knock is if a single detector remans in alarm for more than 10 seconds it will trigger the main sirens. you have to decide if thats what you need. originally i thought we were worried about squirrels, but now its bigger pests so have they mutated - don't drink the local water.

the idea of using pir's in 2 corners (not opposing corners) is that a pir is more sensative passing across its field than approaching/exiting away. so a much larger movement is required to get both pirs to trip. now overlapping the pirs would not be NSI DT254 but then its not monitored system either.

if you want to deter kids or vagrants, as long as you don't have other residents nearby, why not fit some CCTv signs, really loud screamers like 'sound bombs' and some bright strobes, so making it uncomfortable even painful to hang about. a 2 - 5 min 'bell time' would be about right with all zones set to 're-arm' and double knock.

excellent outside detection can be effected using GJD systems, designed for external lighting they tend not to be triggerd by anything smaller tha a fox, not cheep but i find them very good. in your needs they may be to easily damaged as they are not vandal proof.

it seems you will have to suck it and see, as without seeing the site its not easy to list or advise on the possibilities available, and as always affected by the budget allowed by you client.

regs

arfur_mo

[thelockdude]

Well, thanks again, arfur_mo.

I'm going to go with 2 motions in each area, in 2 corners.

This was very much appreciated.

Dan